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Re: Repeated water heater failure
All - Thanks for all the thinking and perspectives and opinions. I went into my call/visit with the plumber with a page full of questions. Just got off the phone with him and essentially you guys identified all the issues:
1. Turns out there is no pressure relief valve on the tank. For some reason it was removed and replaced with a valve that has something to do with the gas line.
2. The expansion tank was not installed or pressurized correctly.
3. The venting is not installed correctly (slope) and is not of the correct material.
4. The seismic bracing for the water heater is insufficient.
5. There IS a pressure relief valve on the cold water line from the water main to the water heater, but is too far from the water heater. Also there's a check valve between the water heater and the pressure relief valve so it's useless anyways.
6. The plumber confirmed that there's nothing about the air handler that should be putting undue pressure on the water heater (The company also does hydronic heating systems so they're familiar with Apollo units.)
He's recommending fixing all of the above and moving to a water heater with a stainless steel tank. He seems to think that will solve the problem.
I'm aware of how lucky I am (and my tenants are). And yes, I've already identified a lawyer in CA before I have a conversation with the previous plumber (who's been out twice in the last two weeks and didn't identify any of these problems. Seriously.) about reparations.
Thanks again. The Internet is a powerful tool to connect folks and tap into expertise and I appreciate it. I'll let you know how it all goes from here.
1. Turns out there is no pressure relief valve on the tank. For some reason it was removed and replaced with a valve that has something to do with the gas line.
2. The expansion tank was not installed or pressurized correctly.
3. The venting is not installed correctly (slope) and is not of the correct material.
4. The seismic bracing for the water heater is insufficient.
5. There IS a pressure relief valve on the cold water line from the water main to the water heater, but is too far from the water heater. Also there's a check valve between the water heater and the pressure relief valve so it's useless anyways.
6. The plumber confirmed that there's nothing about the air handler that should be putting undue pressure on the water heater (The company also does hydronic heating systems so they're familiar with Apollo units.)
He's recommending fixing all of the above and moving to a water heater with a stainless steel tank. He seems to think that will solve the problem.
I'm aware of how lucky I am (and my tenants are). And yes, I've already identified a lawyer in CA before I have a conversation with the previous plumber (who's been out twice in the last two weeks and didn't identify any of these problems. Seriously.) about reparations.
Thanks again. The Internet is a powerful tool to connect folks and tap into expertise and I appreciate it. I'll let you know how it all goes from here.
Re: for those experts of the Hartford loop
That would be the Giffhart loop.
Re: Looking For a Quote
@TheRyanKing
There are 2 common traps people fall into when trying get problem like this resolved. I suspect You have fallen into both of them.
1. Even though you are not an expert in steam heating, you think you know what the problem is and how it needs to be fixed. In your other post you mentioned that you would fix it yourself if you had more time. This mindset is likely to be costly and is also likely to turn away the contractor that actually knows what is wrong with the system. No one likes to spend their time trying to find a nice way to tell a homeowner they are wrong. Knowledgeable steam guys have plenty of work with customers that respect what they do.
2. You seam to think that all contractors are equally qualified and that you just need to get a quote to get a 20x60 house repiped. Any good contractor will avoid people that think this way. Contractors are not a commodity that can quickly compared and evaluated based on how much they would charge to repipe X,Y and Z. Quality oriented contractors will quickly notice your mindset and avoid your job.
As was noted in your previous post, there probably was not that much wrong with your piping. Why don't you get someone that understands steam over to evaluate and fix your system?
There are 2 common traps people fall into when trying get problem like this resolved. I suspect You have fallen into both of them.
1. Even though you are not an expert in steam heating, you think you know what the problem is and how it needs to be fixed. In your other post you mentioned that you would fix it yourself if you had more time. This mindset is likely to be costly and is also likely to turn away the contractor that actually knows what is wrong with the system. No one likes to spend their time trying to find a nice way to tell a homeowner they are wrong. Knowledgeable steam guys have plenty of work with customers that respect what they do.
2. You seam to think that all contractors are equally qualified and that you just need to get a quote to get a 20x60 house repiped. Any good contractor will avoid people that think this way. Contractors are not a commodity that can quickly compared and evaluated based on how much they would charge to repipe X,Y and Z. Quality oriented contractors will quickly notice your mindset and avoid your job.
As was noted in your previous post, there probably was not that much wrong with your piping. Why don't you get someone that understands steam over to evaluate and fix your system?
It's almost here!!!!!
So close I can almost taste it!
Me going down to the basement to light the boiler for the first time of the year.
Me going down to the basement to light the boiler for the first time of the year.
Re: RIP Elvis
Not while I was working there. I was there from 1973-1980. Here's a list of the shows I worked: http://rocktourdatabase.com/venues/nassau-veterans-memorial-coliseum
I started with Led Zep on 6/14/72, and finished with The Jacksons on 11/06/79. There were some others that are not on that list. John Denver sticks out in my memory. After the show, they had me in a lounge with him and Peter, Paul & Mary for about three hours. I was the fly on the wall.
I worked the locker room at the Foreman/Fraiser fight. My instructions were to let NO ONE in the locker room after it was over. That night, I turned away Elliot Gould, Donald Sutherland, Ruben Hurricane Carter, Don King, Leroy Neiman, and Elizabeth Taylor. I also got to meet the fighters. George Foreman wasn't selling grills that night.
I started with Led Zep on 6/14/72, and finished with The Jacksons on 11/06/79. There were some others that are not on that list. John Denver sticks out in my memory. After the show, they had me in a lounge with him and Peter, Paul & Mary for about three hours. I was the fly on the wall.
I worked the locker room at the Foreman/Fraiser fight. My instructions were to let NO ONE in the locker room after it was over. That night, I turned away Elliot Gould, Donald Sutherland, Ruben Hurricane Carter, Don King, Leroy Neiman, and Elizabeth Taylor. I also got to meet the fighters. George Foreman wasn't selling grills that night.
Re: Model business plan
First of all, do you have technical knowledge of HVAC systems? It takes a while to learn the stuff as it covers a vast field. The only way you can learn it in a short time is if you are passionate about it, and then it will consume your life.
If you can do the above, you may expect 5 years of dedication to the trade before you are in a desirable profitable position. As with most businesses, the first 5 years determine the winners and the losers. The winners are the ones who applied themselves and didn't give up.
As far as overhead costs and such, that varies wildly based on the individual and geographical location. Right from the start you will have to keep accruate records on time worked, profit and loss per job and so forth and so on. This will give you a track record to adjust your charge rate and become solvent and profitable. Watching your bank account tells you literally nothing about what's going on with your business.
If you want to do it short term for some extra cash, forget it. If you want to do it long term, you must be prepared to dedicate yourself. The rewards are great but the battle must be fought.
If you can do the above, you may expect 5 years of dedication to the trade before you are in a desirable profitable position. As with most businesses, the first 5 years determine the winners and the losers. The winners are the ones who applied themselves and didn't give up.
As far as overhead costs and such, that varies wildly based on the individual and geographical location. Right from the start you will have to keep accruate records on time worked, profit and loss per job and so forth and so on. This will give you a track record to adjust your charge rate and become solvent and profitable. Watching your bank account tells you literally nothing about what's going on with your business.
If you want to do it short term for some extra cash, forget it. If you want to do it long term, you must be prepared to dedicate yourself. The rewards are great but the battle must be fought.
Re: Boiler Nipple Replace
If it was me I would cut out nipple on the thread close to boiler.Make one or two cuts in nipple being careful not to go into thread of boiler.Hammer and small chisel to hit of section of nipple you cut the it will will come out easy.Good luck.
Re: Pex tubing from the internet. Is it the same ?
Again, it's the brand, not the delivery system that determines the quality.
I've seen Rehau, Uponor and Vieaga all sold on the net, sometimes at lower prices. But as Bob pointed out, do you want to give up the backing of your local distributor for a few cents per foot?
Radiant flooring is the Mecedes Benz of heating systems. I've never had a client ask me to whittle a few bucks off of the price by going with inferior tubing which is something I would refuse to do anyway. They either except the price tag or choose a less expensive method of heating.
Let the Walmart-mentality people go there looking for a heating contractor.
Search this site for "blistering pex" and you'll find pics of Chinese pex that began to blister a short time after it was installed.
If you have the skills and knowledge to design and install radiant floors properly, then please don't cheapen this craft or yourself by trying to cut corners with inferior materials. Radiant has gotten too much of a bad rap from the numerous hacks that have already done that.
I've seen Rehau, Uponor and Vieaga all sold on the net, sometimes at lower prices. But as Bob pointed out, do you want to give up the backing of your local distributor for a few cents per foot?
Radiant flooring is the Mecedes Benz of heating systems. I've never had a client ask me to whittle a few bucks off of the price by going with inferior tubing which is something I would refuse to do anyway. They either except the price tag or choose a less expensive method of heating.
Let the Walmart-mentality people go there looking for a heating contractor.
Search this site for "blistering pex" and you'll find pics of Chinese pex that began to blister a short time after it was installed.
If you have the skills and knowledge to design and install radiant floors properly, then please don't cheapen this craft or yourself by trying to cut corners with inferior materials. Radiant has gotten too much of a bad rap from the numerous hacks that have already done that.
Re: which is faster heat or cold?
Killjoys........this is why we do not have a good joke department. 
