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Re: Single Pipe Steam Boiler Replacement & Piping (Unusual header?) Advice for Amateur
I can't thank you enough for the time you took to help me understand the way a proper header should look, and to diagram it out so I can get a realistic estimate.
Ben
Re: Single Pipe Steam Boiler Replacement & Piping (Unusual header?) Advice for Amateur
@109A_5 Thanks for the callout. I responded to OP's message and gave him who I use a mechanic. He's a young (for steam) guy in his late 20s/early 30s, but unlike everyone else I've worked with here in Rochester, he understands that steam is different than water.
That said, as to a new boiler, I think most local companies can install it properly. The problem around here isn't workmanship, it's knowledge of how steam is different than water. As long as OP holds the contractor to the diagram in the boiler manual, they should be able to install it properly.
KarlW
Re: Draft
Juvenile Delinquent and graffiti on the walls… what an awesome analogy Spoken like a true teacher!
That will draw a picture in your minds eye!
Re: "Yelp"/ angi list for contractors.
@The Steam Whisperer I have a feeling that your idea may be against the law or at least an infringement on someone's right to privacy. I am not sure that it is a viable service that a business can just post Customer John Doe does not pay their bill. Unless you get the customer’s permission beforehand.
I would become a member of a private online service, not open to the general public, that may post this information similar to the way a credit bureau offers the credit score for individuals who provide their SS number and DOB. Anytime you apply for a credit card or a bank loan, the fine print says that they can report your payment history to any credit bureau that the financial institution has an agreement with. You gave permission when you signed the application.
The trick is to assemble a “Bureau of Trade Customers” by having all tradesmen have that fine print in their invoices where it states that any customers dealings with tradesmen of any type that subscribe to the “Bureau of Trade Customers” that will give permission to the contractor to post their experience with said customer for all other trades to look up and make a decision if they want to deal with that customer. Each customer would be rated with a “Trade Score” just like a “Credit Score”
So every address that has any type of trade work on the property, from original construction including foundations and structures, to masons, to framers and roofers, to electricians, plumbers and mechanicals. For the most part those first owners (the developers) would get a score based on how the original construction was handled. If the developer ends up not paying and files bankruptcy the personal information of the individual(s) would be part of the public record and you can avoid future develop[ers with that(those) individual(s) as named owners.
Each proceeding owner would also be rated along with an equipment rating (as to weather or not the systems were designed or operate properly) so as a prospective contractor you can know what you are getting into. Customer rates poorly or equipment rates poorly.
Just a few ramblings from an old man in a wheelchair
Re: Oil tank slowly dripping from bottom
Agree Ed. I am still interested in @mrcoder's experience with fuel lines that contain steel, cast iron, malleable iron, brass, copper, and aluminum. With the certainty of his statement above, I want to know what has changed since I retired in 2019. Have there been a surge in dissimilar metals used in fuel lines begin to deteriorate at an accelerated? Has anyone else experienced this problem? I like that this new member has important information to share with all of us here. I would hope that this new member might be just a little more delicate when describing the work of others they feel is inferior to their higher level of craftsmanship.
I know that when I had less than 100 posts back in 2004, I was happy to get advice from this forum. I made it a habit of paying it foreword. When I asked about something I didn't know about and got some very good answers from "The Wall", I would select a minimum of 3 questions that I had a Iron clad answer for. I got help from old-timers like @john_35 or @Ray Landry who were members before me, and helped me. To pay it foreword, I might answer a circulator pump query or an oil burner control problem with the authority of knowing that I had to correct answer to solve a problem for someone else. I didn't have the time stay online as much time as I have now, so my time on here was limited. After 45+ years experience and this disability, I have nothing better to do but solve the problems of the world, one oil burner nozzle at a time.
Re: Single Pipe Steam Boiler Replacement & Piping (Unusual header?) Advice for Amateur
Suggest you get @Mad Dog_2 to consult. PM him
Re: Single Pipe Steam Boiler Replacement & Piping (Unusual header?) Advice for Amateur
If it was me I'd replace the boiler myself, others on this site have, and I believe they are glad they did. It seems your contractors only want to do a mediocre job. Probably the hardest part is getting the new boiler into the basement. Although it actually seems that the hardest part is for some contractors to do a good installation job.
If you prefer to not do the work yourself, I guess keep getting estimates until you get one you like without a lot of coaching. Has any contractor measured the radiators ?
I'd match the boiler (Square Feet) to the EDR. (Assuming the EDR survey is accurate) As an example, my boiler could run for hours (if needed) and the pressure never gets to 2 Inches of water column (0.072 PSIG). It is slightly undersized, yet heats the house just fine. No extra pressure during a recovery from a setback.
Your near boiler piping is not correct. So it should be corrected, a new boiler install is the perfect time to get it done.
I would not reward Burnham with another purchase. Maybe 29 years is good run for a Burnham. I believe my old boiler is over 50.
The drips at the end of the mains should be individual pipes until well under the boiler's water line then connected into the wet return, to isolate each main from the other.
Since you are using Big Mouths, run the longer main with minimal or no vent restriction, a custom orifice can be easily made from a pipe plug and added the threaded vent of the Big Mouth on the shorter main. This way the steam gets to the end of each main at about the same time.
I'd probably get the chimney repaired / relined for quiet boiler operation and maybe change the orientation of the boiler to minimize the flew pipe length.
109A_5
Re: Single Pipe Steam Boiler Replacement & Piping (Unusual header?) Advice for Amateur
The near boiler piping is very wrong. it might happen to work ok now but it should be done correctly with the new boiler.
The header should be in the order of:
risers from boiler
risers from header to mains
equalizer
The header and risers from boiler size should be at minimum the size specified in the manual
Each main should connect separately to the header. If a main is counterflow it needs a drip down to below the water line before it connects to the header. each drip needs to have its own return connection below the water line.
The header shouldn't reduce in size on the horizontal so it doesn't trap water.
Run away from anyone that says to put in a boiler bigger than the connected edr. The nameplate edr has an extra 30% pickup factor subtracted from it so it is probably oversized a bit even if it matches the nameplate. Do not use anyone that suggests you should go bigger than the connected edr beyond what is the closest size.
If you have a main that is filling from a return, you have to figure out why that is possible, most likely returns from different mains that are connected above the water line. The returns from different mains must connect together below the water line. The most common reason for this is that a connection that was below the water line became above the water line when a boiler with a lower water line was installed. Also possible that whoever installed that boiler didn't understand why returns at the boiler needed to drop below the water line before connecting. The steam from the other main will come in to the main at the vent and close it, preventing the main from venting properly. It will eventually vent through the radiators but it will be slow to heat.
Your near boiler piping looks like they just hooked up whatever was closest wherever they could and didn't know what they are doing.
mattmia2
Re: Confused by basement runs in school 2 pipe system
I have a little booklet "Some Basic Principles of Steam heating Systems" put out by Nash Vacuum Pumps in 1955 mine is a 1992 reprint its like 23 pages and the print is tiny. But it is all about vacuum pumps and piping.
Perhaps @Pumpguy has this and can post it I think it would help you a lot.
I would send you mine but I can't give it up yet LOL
I am going to try and scan and post but the print is tiny and I am having trouble with my printer. Will see.
Re: Confused by basement runs in school 2 pipe system
I don't understand from your diagram how your system can maintain a vacuum. The vac pump will pull a vac on the entire system (or try to) but when the boiler goes into a vacuum it will pull air through the open vent on the condensate tank….not good, I don't see how your system can achieve a vacuum.
I do not claim to be a vacuum system expert (like @Pumpguy ) but have worked on a few and don't think I have seen the set up you have.