Best Of
Re: Steam Boiler Pressure & Some Of My Adventures
Personally if it was my boiler, I'd not mess with the boiler supply piping this time of year, getting the pipe plug out of the top of the boiler and reworking the mains into a new header may open up a can of worms.
Presently I'd correct the venting and the gauge issue. Then see how it works. See how long it takes and when it builds significant pressure. If you still want to redo the supply side plan it out over the winter, then in the spring redo it when there it time to recover if something bad happens without being in a time panic with no heat.
Although not optimum your supply piping may work reasonably well, mine is similar, been that way for 50 years and seems to work just fine. If my boiler failed I would change it then.
Typically the boilers over a specific size have two or more risers that have swing joints then go into the header. A drop header is even better. Each steam main is individually connected to the header all in the correct order. This method reduces heat related expansion stress on the boiler section connections and helps dry the steam allowing gravity to separate out the water droplets. Review @EzzyT's postings (and others), many header examples.
Another great @EzzyT venting example.
109A_5
Re: Am I blind? Not seeing the gas shut-off valve.
Post it here but take some pictures of the whole install first, try to show as much as possible to give everyone a bit to work from to start. frustrating as some of this may be keep in mind first that a boiler SYSTEM is not just an appliance you bought. there are things that must be installed in the field. the gas line being one of those things, must be sized and built in the field. you should have an appliance gas valve to the unit, a union and dirt leg, those components need to be accessible and outside of the cabinet. This may be required by local code (almost definitely), but more importantly its just smart. The valve so you can shut off gas to just the appliance, a union, so you can take apart the gas line to that unit (changeouts etc) and the dirt leg just in case junk is in the gas line, it should collect in the dirt leg so it doesn't end up in the gas valve. You may see on larger units a separate shutoff inside the cabinet, especially on a dual gas valve unit, but even then you still must have a valve outside the cabinet, union and dirt leg (and its smart!)
GGross
Re: Groundwater (possibly high) and adding thin radiant slab over existing uninsulated slab, below grade
it sounds like you need a drainage system around the building, possibly a sump pump to keep the level down
Water or moist ground under the slab, not good
hot_rod
Re: Boiler plumbing questions
@hot_rod I have an electric water heater, the existing heat was an old yukon energy forced air wood furnace.
Re: Am I blind? Not seeing the gas shut-off valve.
Many say you can't put valves or unions inside a cabinet. I have yet to see that in any code. Around here you will probably find 50% of the unions inside and 50% outside.
Re: Am I blind? Not seeing the gas shut-off valve.
yes. Read this again….
”Valve come in many types and can be rated for multiple purpose. Lots of gas valve have small wing type shutoff. The one you have is common across water and gas.”
PC7060
Re: Tempstar furnace no heat.
This wiring diagram may help if you have a multi-meter.
Some troubleshooting information here, Honeywell S8600 Intermittent Pilot Module .
https://customer.resideo.com/resources/Techlit/TechLitDocuments/69-0000s/69-0463.pdf
The spark only lights the pilot. Check for the presence of the pilot, if it lights and goes out the igniter / sensor rod may need cleaning, pilot quality, pilot orifice restricted, loose ground wires. No pilot at all, plugged pilot orifice, electrical issue, S8600 issue, gas valve issue .
109A_5
Re: HVAC in New Construction in 2024
There have been many discussions on heat pumps and furnaces/boilers, so I thought I would put out some of the points that seem to keep recurring.
Heat Pumps in Cold Climates: Why Hybrid Systems Make More Sense: Heat pumps are a remarkable technology, but in cold climates with high electricity rates, they can be expensive to install, replace, and run. Fortunately, hybrid systems with a boiler or furnace offer a smarter, more flexible solution.
Bosch recommends mini splits with boilers, not just heat pumps alone. In a training session two weeks ago, they also stated that heat pumps in New England are not a good application because the electric rates are so high.
NREL study shows a seasonal COP of 2.1 (210% annual efficiency) - that's almost $6/gal oil equivalent. Since the COP drops further with lower temperatures, electric bills increase rapidly. This May 2023 NREL Field Validation of Air-Source Heat Pumps for Cold Climates study shows the wide disparity between manufacturers ratings and field performance, with an average seasonal efficiency (COP) of 2.1. On a unit of energy basis, $0.30/kWh is the equivalent of $12.18 per gallon of oil and $8.79 per therm of natural gas. New York residential electric rates increased 50% from 2020 to 2024, and 4% in the prior 7 years…Northeast states are leading that trend and forecast to increase further.
Studies show 60% to 80% of people turn off their heat pump below 35°F, often due to high electric bills and the air the blow is colder than furnaces (multiple studies p 18-19). That’s often the right choice economically and environmentally because furnaces and boilers will cost less to operate and they use less source energy compared to electricity generated with natural gas (EPA Clean Air Markets Program Data CAMPD 40% power plant efficiency in New England less 8% transmission and distribution losses); and they have lower carbon intensity (GREET 2022 1.06% natural gas fugitive emissions means natural gas 20 year lifecycle has a 36% higher carbon intensity than fuel oil). Even more so when temperatures drop below freezing.
Imagine a power plant as a hungry pizza eater. You feed it 8 slices of natural gas, but it gobbles up 5 slices just to generate and deliver electricity to your home. That leaves only 3 slices of usable energy. A 210% efficient heat pump can stretch those 3 slices into 6 slices of heat. But if you use a boiler that's 87% efficient, it skips the power plant altogether and turns 7 out of 8 slices directly into heat, more warmth, less waste.
Furnaces and boilers deliver warmer, more comfortable heat (cold climate technical data p A230). For comparison, the air leaving mini split heat pump heat at 91°F can feel like cold air blowing at 73°F just a few feet away. A better air sealed and weatherized house with high efficiency windows and doors can improve winter heat pump comfort.
Electrification will require that the residential grid grow 4X. Cold climate heat pumps consume close to 2X as much electricity as a typical home, and EVs use the equivalent of another home's worth of electricity. In the near term, that means if just 10% of cold climate homes fully "electrify", the residential grid will need to provide almost 30% more electricity (and that does not include overall grid load impacts from AI impacts). And the cost of utility scale battery back up is astronomical, they last about 10 years and cost about $300 to $500 per kWh of storage - that's just $0.30 of electricity.
Heat pumps aren’t just expensive to run, they’re expensive to install and replace. In Rhode Island, representatives indicated that converting low-income homes to heat pumps cost the state $20,000–$25,000 per home this year. Over time, that’s $75,000+, compared to a single boiler that lasts decades.
Hybrid systems make sense, especially in a volatile energy future. It’s not all-or-nothing as hybrid systems let you choose the best tool for the job, season by season. Choosing to heat with a heat pump or a boiler/furnace could be for personal comfort, operating cost, emissions, source energy consumption, and more.
Roger
Roger
Re: Multiple temperatures on single zone with single circulator pump?
I'm getting dizzy.
Back on October 5 @EdTheHeaterMan posted three of his lovely technicolour diagrams of this setup. A being the one in place (we think) and B and C being proposals.
Of these, only , with C two pumps wilt be controllable. I agree that Option B, with just the one pump, will work, but there is no way to control the relative heat output of the new baseboard radiation relative to the radiant. If you unwrap the diagram in a slightly different way, you find that the baseboard radiation is on what should be the primary boiler loop of the system ( presume there is a boiler circulating pump in here? We haven't heard much about it…) while the radiant floor is on a secondary loop. The problem being that mixing valve at the takeoff to the radiant, rather than that being just a T.
Use option C and treat the whole thing as a primary/secondary with a mixing valve or thermoostatic valve to control the temperature in the radiant loop…
Re: Proactive steam valve replacement
I'd rebuild what you have, put a new washer in and lubricate them.(not with the kit, just clean up and lubricate with a new seal disc)
I think the Tunstall kit removes the metering aspect and converts them for use with a trv.
mattmia2