Best Of
Re: Water Tanks on Roofs?
@ChrisJ The float ball with the angled rod is on a fill valve like this. If I recall the riser up to it is 2". The vertical one goes up to a level switch for fill or high/low alarm. Attached a good photo from a different tank of some of those switches.
@leonz any time you see float balls and rods for rooftanks or sewage pits in the city, they're almost always 8"
Training Opportunities you like?
Greetings everyone. Im trying to compile a list of boiler training places where you can get training that's not a four hour commercial. Let me know of any you have attended that were worthwhile. . This is the list so far:
Manufacturer/Company-Specific Training
- WARE Boiler University (Louisville, KY): In-person (hands-on lab with live boilers), online, and on-site classes like Boiler University 201 (basics/operation) and 303 (flame safeguard/controls). Popular for all levels.
- Power Flame: Burner-focused classes (e.g., Fundamentals of Combustion 101, Basic Controls & Troubleshooting 102, Cmax Burner training). Hands-on at their Parsons, KS facility.
- Boilearn: Boiler classes
- Cleaver-Brooks: Online (e.g., Boiler Room Essentials self-paced), on-site/custom, classroom at their Milwaukee facility, and product-specific (e.g., Hawk controls, ClearFire). Covers operations, maintenance, and all boiler types regardless of brand.
- U.S. Boiler Company (USB University): Online webinars, videos, and in-person sessions on hydronic systems, installation, service, and specific products
- Advanced Thermal Hydronics (KN-Series / Reed Institute): Free or low-cost technical service and application training for technicians/engineers, including hands-on in their live-fire lab.
- Spirax Sarco: Multi-day courses like Basic Steam Boiler Operator Training (5 days, operation/maintenance/troubleshooting). On-site options available; partners with ASOPE for exams.
Independent/Specialized Boiler Training Providers
- GCAP (Garden City Ammonia Program / boilerlicense.com): Hands-on steam boiler training (high/low pressure) with live equipment. Online options too; one of the largest private programs.
- Power Mechanical Steam School: In-depth, hands-on boiler room training (design, operation, efficiency, safety). Multiple dates offered.
- The Training Center: Online and in-person boiler operator programs preparing for licenses/certifications (e.g., NJ-focused but broader options).
- 360training: Fully online boiler operation certification courses (startup/shutdown, controls, etc.).
- HVACRedu.net: Online boiler technician training focused on hot water/hydronic systems.
Community Colleges, Associations & Other Programs
- MATC (Milwaukee Area Technical College): Boiler Operator certificate program (in-person).
- Bates Technical College (Tacoma, WA): Boiler operator certification testing and related training for various classes.
- Iowa Association of Building Maintenance Executives (IABME): Low/high pressure boiler operation, HVAC, etc.
- Manufacturers’ Association / Other regional seminars: Boiler Operation, Maintenance & Safety courses.
- TPC Training: Webinars and instructor-led boiler fundamentals (e.g., how boilers work, components).
- National Association of Stationary Operating Engineers (NASOE): Supports accredited schools for licensing prep.
Re: Williamson Octopus Furnace still alive and well
I'm thinking that red circled panel is where the "humidifier" went. On my dad's coal fired Holland, behind that panel there was a place where you could put a pan of water.
Pumpguy
Re: How to remove old fittings
On common nuts and bolts where the head isn't very high and the head is usually up against a surface that prevents the wrench from engaging properly, adjustable wenches to poorly. On piping fittings where the hex is taller and usually is out in the open they work well if they are properly engaged with the fitting and turned in the direction where most of the force is on the fixed jaw.
mattmia2
Re: Water Tanks on Roofs?
Domestic tanks have enough flow in/out that its not usually an issue for them. Fire service only tanks are more likely to freeze since they just sit around doing nothing basically all the time. Rarely you'll see submerged resistance heaters in a roof tank. Buildings are more likely to put heat trace wiring on the in and out lines under the insulation because its simpler and easier and those are usually enough to keep things from turning solid during extended cold periods.
Below is that same fire tank that I shared a photo of before. It froze this past winter when we had that cold spell for couple weeks. Couldn't break it by stomping it as hard as I could. I was there on a warm day when things had started to melt because all the sudden the controls were throwing low level alarm. The piping down to the building had frozen and cracked somewhere under the insulation and it had just thawed enough to start leaking out of the tank. The pumps couldn't push water in either because the inlet was still frozen too. All they could do was let everything thaw first, then fix stuff. I'm sure the building wishes they had kept their heat trace wire plugged in, but as you can see by the naked plug in that second photo… oops!
Re: The Things I See Out There
In my best David Attenborough:
"Here we see thermal expansion tanks in their natural habitat. While tanks are usually solitary creatures, here we see the rare exception of a strong family pack, signifying that the individuals determined their survival would be better as a pack, rather than on their own"
Re: How to remove old fittings
Hi, The lower wrench in my photo is actually an old Hoe Wrench, patented in 1922. It's my go-to wrench, but you would likely have to hunt around on Ebay to find one. Here's an image of a monkey wrench.
Yours, Larry
Re: Water Tanks on Roofs?
Took this photo the other day from the top of a roof tank, and as you can see there's plenty more around. I always take a moment to enjoy the views I get and sometimes get some nice photos
Re: Old Gravity System Converted To Gas Boiler
I’m a former pro who spent 35 years in boiler rooms in and around Chicago. If it’s cold on the lakefront, it’s just as cold in Schaumburg.
Here’s the way I’d attack it. First off, I agree that a blower door test or two is good idea. I’d start with an evaluation of the boiler and the near boiler piping. I’d gather every bit of information that I’d need to do a Manual J heat loss load calculation, breaking every room down and determining how the EDR compares with the room heat loss. From there you’d want to look at the heat loss and ways that you can button up the envelope to decrease that heat loss. That’s when it’s time to evaluate boiler selection. I’ve done houses in the Chicago area up to 22,000 sf. At 8000, I would definitely go with two boilers and there will be many ways you can set up how to control them. I love the simplicity of the old school cast iron boiler, but I’m a modulating condensing boiler type guy. If piped correctly and serviced properly, you will get plenty of years from them that justify the upfront cost difference. The brand of boiler you choose is also significant. I was strictly a Lochinvar and Viessmann guy. Lochinvar has a strong presence in the Chicago area with their local sales rep. in Elk Grove Village. The boiler is available at Porter Pipe & Supply, hands down the best supply house in the Chicago area who provides a level of service that is very hard to find these days. A good guy to start with is Piotr Zelasko out of the Addison branch. He doesn’t have an important sounding job title, but I assure you he has brilliant mind and is a hydronic savant. He also has an engineering degree. He will come to your house, evaluate the situation, and recommend a contractor who’s worth his salt. Tell him I recommended you. I worked with Porter Pipe and Piotr for many years. There is no better choice in the Chicagoland area and I assure you, I have no skin in the game. I’m retired and living in the wasteland of Las Vegas at its furthest point north.
Re: Augusta Stone Church
Former pro here - I faced a similar problem back in 2016. It was a 160 year old, stone church with an old steam boiler, cracked sections, piped as wrong as possible, and the piping that ran throughout was just as bad. Everything was original except the boiler which was 20 years old. They were exhausted because of the continuous expensive repairs, high gas bills, pipe corrosion, and yet over the past 20 years nobody even mentioned the near boiler piping being a mess.
They’d been saving for years for a one and done solution. They had 6-7 contractors providing them a solution and the cost of that solution. Each one of us were lined up outside the church elder’s office as they called us in one at a time to ,more-less, interview us and ask why we were proposing our specific plan. I was the last one called and we connected immediately, the old school guys especially. I just told the truth. Steam is great but most every single component, fitting, and length of pipe was a century and a half old and the unexpected expenses are killing you. We installed two Lochinvar Knights, an indirect water heater, a home run manifold distribution system using 1/2 pex-al-pex tubing, flushed every radiator, and actually added enough EDR to match the building’s heat loss. The utility costs plummeted, no more unexpected expensive repairs, a comfortable building, and they only had to budget for annual maintenance. My plan satisfied all their needs and then they hired me to install AC for the church, its offices, and a new HVAC system for the Pastor’s home on the same property. 10 years later, 6 years retired, and I still keep in touch with them. It was probably my favorite job in my career and they’re still happy they hired me. There are times when I needed to just gut a job and start over, or I’d walk away. It rarely happened, but I never wanted to be married to a nightmare. Like everything, I learned that the hard way. Whatever your solution, I wish you the best of luck