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Re: AFG burner stops in the middle of the night.
I wish I could find an old article in one of the Trade Journals that explained a known problem with Honeywell's R8184 controls in the original design. (1980s) Since You have the R8184P (rare number no longer available) I think you have the removable gray metal cover, meaning that you have one of those original circuit designs. If that is the case, Just replace the Primary control with a new electronic model. Like the Beckett Genesis or the Carlin 70200 Pro.
That article mentioned that (and Honeywell would not admit to it) if there happened to be a power spike as a precise moment in the start up cycle on that control, that the diac or the triac on that circuit board could be compromised. Since this power spike phenomenon has to happen at a precise moment between the call for heat and the trial for ignition, it hardly ever happened. But once it did, that control will always have this problem. the control would get some bleed electric current to travel across the safety timer heater. Rarely did the bleed electricity ever heat up the safety switch enough to trip the safety switch, For that reason it was considered a non-issue by Honeywell and tech support just said ”that never happened before”.
Where the problem would manifest is if the compromised control had a call for heat for an extended period of time (like overnight during very cold winter days) that safety heater could get hot enough to trip. Now back in the day, the R8184 was the GoTo control for replacing the RA117A stack relay. It was the safer control because the safety timing went from 90 seconds to 45 seconds.
Today that safety timing is considered unsafe and all the electronic relays trip within 15 seconds if there is no flame signal from the Cadmium Cell eye. (also called the Cat’s Eye by some folks with selective hearing)
That article mentioned that (and Honeywell would not admit to it) if there happened to be a power spike as a precise moment in the start up cycle on that control, that the diac or the triac on that circuit board could be compromised. Since this power spike phenomenon has to happen at a precise moment between the call for heat and the trial for ignition, it hardly ever happened. But once it did, that control will always have this problem. the control would get some bleed electric current to travel across the safety timer heater. Rarely did the bleed electricity ever heat up the safety switch enough to trip the safety switch, For that reason it was considered a non-issue by Honeywell and tech support just said ”that never happened before”.
Where the problem would manifest is if the compromised control had a call for heat for an extended period of time (like overnight during very cold winter days) that safety heater could get hot enough to trip. Now back in the day, the R8184 was the GoTo control for replacing the RA117A stack relay. It was the safer control because the safety timing went from 90 seconds to 45 seconds.
Today that safety timing is considered unsafe and all the electronic relays trip within 15 seconds if there is no flame signal from the Cadmium Cell eye. (also called the Cat’s Eye by some folks with selective hearing)
Your nightmare...
I am a firm believer of using life stories as a learning tool. I know the jobs I made a mistake on, I never make that mistake again. I also believe life is a series of experiences, all of which have a lesson to be learned attached to them.
I would love to hear about the life experiences you all have had, and what the lesson may be. One of the hardest lessons I learned is also really gross.
This incident happened in my younger days when I thought I was a real hot shot plumber / heat guy. My boss gives me some blue prints for an expansion of a dentist office. All the work was to be done in this 3' wood framed crawl space that had suspended ceilings below that. It was a hard job to pipe as you needed all these services shoved into a tiny box. ( Air, water, vacuum etc ) so the dentist hand piece would work.
We were kicking ****. We had a majority of the work done in a few days. Considering you literally had to crawl over joist and it seemed like the dental chairs were a mile away.
The last service we had to connect to was vacuum. We had to cut into 2" PVC for tees to be installed in the vacuum line. It was anchored to the joist above. So.. my helper starts to cut the 2" PVC. All the sudden, 1/2 way thru the pipe snaps off and all this spit, water, blood and hunks of teeth falls directly on my helpers face and neck. I didn't notice the big sag in the line. Jim, my guy starts throwing up, then I didn't know sympathy barfing is a thing... It is. The smell ... omg it was horrible. There were 2 guys throwing up in a crawl space which has that suspended ceiling. What really sucked is the long ways to crawl to
get out. Words can't describe this experience.
This story really isn't over. We had to contact the office people, new ceiling tile. Without a doubt, this is the worst one I had. The lessons... yeah plural
Steve Noviello
I would love to hear about the life experiences you all have had, and what the lesson may be. One of the hardest lessons I learned is also really gross.
This incident happened in my younger days when I thought I was a real hot shot plumber / heat guy. My boss gives me some blue prints for an expansion of a dentist office. All the work was to be done in this 3' wood framed crawl space that had suspended ceilings below that. It was a hard job to pipe as you needed all these services shoved into a tiny box. ( Air, water, vacuum etc ) so the dentist hand piece would work.
We were kicking ****. We had a majority of the work done in a few days. Considering you literally had to crawl over joist and it seemed like the dental chairs were a mile away.
The last service we had to connect to was vacuum. We had to cut into 2" PVC for tees to be installed in the vacuum line. It was anchored to the joist above. So.. my helper starts to cut the 2" PVC. All the sudden, 1/2 way thru the pipe snaps off and all this spit, water, blood and hunks of teeth falls directly on my helpers face and neck. I didn't notice the big sag in the line. Jim, my guy starts throwing up, then I didn't know sympathy barfing is a thing... It is. The smell ... omg it was horrible. There were 2 guys throwing up in a crawl space which has that suspended ceiling. What really sucked is the long ways to crawl to
get out. Words can't describe this experience.
This story really isn't over. We had to contact the office people, new ceiling tile. Without a doubt, this is the worst one I had. The lessons... yeah plural
Steve Noviello
Re: Taco Vortech air separator
Be mindful before you put a wrench on this and bangin away, here is the way to take apart
Dave H_2
1
Re: Damp spot under boiler. What is leaking?
A quick fix is to put a cap over the drain, like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085ZR3J47
I put those caps on anything with hose thread as a matter of course, make it a two-step process for anyone to accidentally flood the house.
You do want to replace that valve eventually. Usually what happens is once they start leaking if you ever have to open it the leaking gets much worse when you close it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085ZR3J47
I put those caps on anything with hose thread as a matter of course, make it a two-step process for anyone to accidentally flood the house.
You do want to replace that valve eventually. Usually what happens is once they start leaking if you ever have to open it the leaking gets much worse when you close it.
Re: Solar preheat for Rinnai Tankless
I don't see a recirc loop on your drawing?
Here is what a Rinnai rep told me about sending warm water to them.
Here is what a Rinnai rep told me about sending warm water to them.
hot_rod
2
Re: Flame Loss While Running
I would start here.
It's odd Lochinvar doesn't want Hi and Lo fire tests. Maybe it's because I only see boilers up to 400K input.
Is the display able to capture the flame loss? Does it say blower RPM, percentage input, flame rectification, etc., at the time of the flame loss?
It's odd Lochinvar doesn't want Hi and Lo fire tests. Maybe it's because I only see boilers up to 400K input.
Is the display able to capture the flame loss? Does it say blower RPM, percentage input, flame rectification, etc., at the time of the flame loss?
HVACNUT
1
Re: Need advice locating a leak
@JUGHNE above has good advice. Check those items.
Also do you have a boiler feed tank or condensate tank? If so, check the vent pipe and see if you are losing steam there.
Also do you have a boiler feed tank or condensate tank? If so, check the vent pipe and see if you are losing steam there.
Re: NEW Indirect needed, Please Help
Warranty is only for the original owners in almost every instance
GGross
2
Re: AFG burner stops in the middle of the night.
So middle of the night shut downs? Never during daytime? Does the boiler fire off right away when you re-set it? One thing comes to mind. This is going back a ways. Up until 20 years ago, the transformer had PCBs which we know is dangerous.. so the changed the whole transformer design with no PCBs. It had a flaw that drove tecs nuts for years.
The new transformer design has a internal thermal overload switch. I will take you thru a cycle so you understand what I am saying. Boiler gets a call for heat. Its not very cold out so the run times are shorter than when its 0 out. So the boiler is running.. on the front end of a cycle, your draft may not be perfect so you get some heat back up. In other words, your draft is not strong enough on the beginning of a cycle to keep heat from backing up against the burner. Remember the internal overload?? Enough heat backing up against the burner will shut everything down through the thermal overload. You go hit the re-set, and it runs flawlessly. Drives you crazy. You can't find anything wrong. Finally after a year or so of these phantom lock outs, I ran into a rep and he solved the problem by telling me about the transformer issues. The solution was go to solid state transformers. The old transformers were 10,000 volt the new solid state models are 14,000 and boy you can hear the transformer cackle as it arcs across the electrodes.
I am not sure how old your burner is. If its newer and has a thin little transformer, thats not the problem. If its big, bulky and heavy it may be worth throwing a new transformer on the burner. Since it never fails when you are there, Phantom lock outs are a bugger to figure out. FYI there is no warning signs for this problem. You can try getting it to fail by cutting the draft back and running short cycles.
Good luck
The new transformer design has a internal thermal overload switch. I will take you thru a cycle so you understand what I am saying. Boiler gets a call for heat. Its not very cold out so the run times are shorter than when its 0 out. So the boiler is running.. on the front end of a cycle, your draft may not be perfect so you get some heat back up. In other words, your draft is not strong enough on the beginning of a cycle to keep heat from backing up against the burner. Remember the internal overload?? Enough heat backing up against the burner will shut everything down through the thermal overload. You go hit the re-set, and it runs flawlessly. Drives you crazy. You can't find anything wrong. Finally after a year or so of these phantom lock outs, I ran into a rep and he solved the problem by telling me about the transformer issues. The solution was go to solid state transformers. The old transformers were 10,000 volt the new solid state models are 14,000 and boy you can hear the transformer cackle as it arcs across the electrodes.
I am not sure how old your burner is. If its newer and has a thin little transformer, thats not the problem. If its big, bulky and heavy it may be worth throwing a new transformer on the burner. Since it never fails when you are there, Phantom lock outs are a bugger to figure out. FYI there is no warning signs for this problem. You can try getting it to fail by cutting the draft back and running short cycles.
Good luck
Re: NEW Indirect needed, Please Help
The efficiency will be about the same between different tanks of the same series. tanks with better insulation will be a little more efficient. Most indirect tanks will be compatible with most boilers.
If your current tank is really dual coil it will have a lot more transfer area than a single coil tank so it can heat more water from the boiler. I'm not sure if it is a steel or stainless tank. If it is a stainless tank and it is just leaking at a fitting it is probably worth fixing that instead of replacing the tank.
It isn't likely that anything you do with the boiler or the tank will significantly change your heating bill, A 10% difference in your bill won't be much. Adding insulation and reducing infiltration of the building envelope will do a lot more to save you fuel.
If your current tank is really dual coil it will have a lot more transfer area than a single coil tank so it can heat more water from the boiler. I'm not sure if it is a steel or stainless tank. If it is a stainless tank and it is just leaking at a fitting it is probably worth fixing that instead of replacing the tank.
It isn't likely that anything you do with the boiler or the tank will significantly change your heating bill, A 10% difference in your bill won't be much. Adding insulation and reducing infiltration of the building envelope will do a lot more to save you fuel.
mattmia2
3