Best Of
Re: When did pressure relief valves become standard?
As far as pressure relief valves, they weren't needed on hot water systems until they went to closed compression tanks from open attic tanks.
mattmia2
Re: When did pressure relief valves become standard?
Steam boilers naturally lose some amount of water and will heat possibly even after the water level is dangerously low. Steam boilers generally aren't controlled on temp so there would be nothing to stop the burner as it keeps getting hotter.
Hot water boilers don't lose water unless there is a leak and will usually stop heating because they are air bound long before they dry fire although it certainly is still possible in a few ways. Usually the aquastat will cut the burner long before they dry fire as well. I think most dry fires of hot water boilers are burner controls that get stuck on, either gas valves getting stuck open or relays on oil burners welding shut.
mattmia2
Re: Boiler harmonics/piping fix
From what I can see from the picture you have many pipes that are either not supported or supported metal to metal or concrete to hanger etc. This can cause the noise that you are describing. The hydro-sorb type -b-line strut hangers seem to have that rubber cushion on some hangers but not all of them. This can make the whine, hum or harmonic problem you describe.
Go to the boiler while it is running and place your hand on different pipes. Push and pull on them a bit to see if or how the music changes.
This boiler is piped into a corner and will take some doing to add and reinforce your current supports as many pipes are in the way.
I would add and fix current supports to soften and even eliminate the noise before repiping everything.
Here are some pictures of different types of what can be called hydro-sorb supports.
Intplm.
Re: Rococo Dining Room Radiator Install- Why Are These So Rare?
That same type of radiator, without the cabinet, was sold for placing around a window frame.
Re: steam vs vapor system
Or another way to look at it. A vapour system is a steam system, with a difference.
First, they are always two pipe systems, often with wet returns as well.
Second, they are designed to work at very low differential pressure between the steam mains and the dry returns — typically 8 OUNCES per square inch as a maximum.
Third, from the initial construction standpoint, as a result they don't need as much headroom from the boiler water line to dry returns — 20 inches is ample.
Fourth, as noted above, they almost always used metering valves adjusted to control the maximum amount of steam going into a radiator to what the radiator can condense. These are defeated by excess pressure differential
As a result of that, the outlet arrangements can vary widely. Some — Hoffman Equipped — always used traps. Others used various patented devices which work well at low pressure, but not at all at higher pressure differentials. Some early ones had no output device at all — just an elbow going to the dry return (but don't be fooled — some of those elbows had traps or other devices built in).
Next, many — though not all — had various patented devices to prevent that pressure differential from becoming excessive in the event the boiler got too enthusiastic. These vary from simple (Hoffman Differential Loop) to remarkably complex.
Sixth (I think) as a result of the wizardry, they almost always used crossover traps from the mains to the dry returns to vent the mains, and all venting was concentrated at the boiler where the dry returns join together.
Now having said all that… there are a number of present day advantages. Among them are that traps and vents last pretty much forever, except for the crossovers, since neither are usually called on to do anything. The crossovers are, but since the differential pressures are so low they tend to last forever, too (to give you the idea, Cedric's crossovers were installed in 1930 and are still just fine, thank you. 95 years young)..
There are a few disadvantages as well. The most critical and most common is that maximum pressure differential. They requite a vapourstat or other controller capable of managing the boiler pressure to below that 8 ounces or so. A corollary is that they misbehave rather badly if someone decides to crank up the pressure to more conventional pressures. Another is that they do not like to be kludged. Vents added where they don't belong. Traps removed or changed where they aren't needed. The differential pressure control devices removed because people don't understand them. That sort of thing. Another is that if someone does make them run on a higher than designed pressure, they can get absurdly out of balance, since the metering valves are defeated.
Re: Wiring Diagrams and Relays.
Oh that is too much. A thousand thanks will be just fine! I will send you my Venmo account info in a PM.
Just take wiring diagrams one small part at a time. One circuit at a time. Make the complete circuit from the power source, the the load and the return path back to the power source. All thise switches and contacts on the way are just on and off switches to make the load operate or stop the load from operating. In a zone valve with an end switch there are two circuits. The one from the transformer to the thermostat to the valve motor and return path to the transformer. The other circuit has the source somewhere else, like the heater for example. The end switch is just one of the contacts that open or close to make the heater operate.
Take each step one at a time and the wiring diagrams get easy.
Re: heavy duty power relay
The way I read this the OP mentioned a 3/4hp blower motor on a furnace.
Not the oil burner.
Re: Snow Melt - Asphalt - EPS Foam
100% agreed, but for whatever reason nobody wants concrete. They want asphalt, and they're always right ;-)
GroundUp
Re: Does having multiple zones in large house in Western Massachusetts save money?
This is by no means a scientific study with accurate measurements of the before and after fuel usage. This is just what happened and how I stopped a fuel oil customer from changing the boiler to gas heat. Of course the oil dealer had mixed emotions because the house went from over 3000 gallons per year to under 2000 gallons per year.
SecondEmpireHouse Said: “If I put thermostatic radiator valves on radiators in the bedrooms, we could control those rooms from getting too hot and make the rooms more comfortable. I wonder if that would save on heating costs?
What if we had thermostatic radiator valves on all 22 radiators in the house? What would be the effect of that on heating costs and comfort?”
Betty L was an older customer of the oil dealer that I used to do service calls for. She wanted to save on her fuel bill in the large home that was broken up into several rooms that were rented out to members of the US Coast Guard stationed in Cape May NJ. There were other renters and some of them were unhappy with overheating radiators in their particular rooms. One renteer happened to live in the only multi room apartment with a full kitchen on the first floor. That was the coldest zone in the building because the renovation included cast iron baseboard for that apartment while all the old gravity heat radiators and large piping were feeding the rest of the rooms.
Betty L wanted me to install new manual radiator valves so she could turn off radiators that were in rooms that were too hot. She has selected 8 radiators out of the 20 radiators in the home to have the valves replaced. After a lot of persuasion, I was able to get her to agree that a thermostatic radiator valve would do what she wanted automatically and no one needed to touch the valves once they were set to the comfortable temperature for that room.
To add to the confusion, on the day I was set to install the valves, she asked me to just put in the lower cost manual valves (that I did not have with me) and I told her that is not the way I do business and said thatI would rather give her money back so she would never call me again. That was not to her liking because I did the oil burner maintenance for the previous 4 years and she never had trouble in the winter unlike the previous service companies So she said to put the 8 automatic TRVs in as agreed .
That winter the fuel usage went from over 3000 gallons to under 2000 gallons. That is because the rooms were no longer overheating and the tenants were not opening the windows in the middle of the winter to get some relief.
So to answer your query about savings using TRVs. You will have some savings. Will it save you as much as Mrs. L? I can't say That depends on how much overheating you are experiencing, and if you open windows in the winter to compensate. All I know is that Betty did not convert to gas heat but the oil dealer was unhappy with the loss of 1000+ gallons that he expected from that customer. But agreed that it was better than losing all those gallons to the gas company.
The next summer Betty purchased 11 more TRVs and moved the sensor to the thermostat to that cold apartment that had the CI baseboard. The cold apartment didn’t have any TRVs so that would allow for constant circulation that I designed using a ∆P circulator and the outdoor reset I included in the price of the 11 new TRVs. The following winter the fuel usage was down to about 1600 gallons.
I though that was enough savings for that customer. I didn't want the fuel dealer to loose too much or we might not be friends anymore.
After 25 years, we are still friends.
Re: heavy duty power relay
Before you slap an expensive contactor in there — and there are lots of them — check one thing: are you really getting 24 volts AC to the coil? Or is something dropping it to maybe 21 or even less? Is the transformer powering the system big enough?
Reason I ask is that the quickest way to destroy any relay or contactor is to not give it enough voltage. It will pull in slowly, and that will give you contact bounce and arcing, and you're done.