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Re: Natural gas pressure test
The IRC/IFGC and NFPA 54 all use 3 psi x 10 minutes minimum for small residential. High volume pipe systems can require longer test durations.
The use of high pressures for leak detection is faulty. Consider the test gauge: the code allows for a maximum resolution of 5 times the test pressure. A 3 psi gauge can be 15 psi max. With the spacing between the graduations, you have a chance of detecting needle movement. Now, consider a 150 psi gauge for a common 30 psi test. If there is a low-level leak, it misleads you into thinking the needle is not moving. High pressure testing has been known to actually cause leaks. See the key valves below
Another big difference is gauge size. It is much easier to read needle deflection on a 4.5 or 6" lollly pop gauge than a little 2" typical one. You also have considerations such as lighting, parallax error, or a defective gauge. Our inspectors bleed our gauges just to prove the needle can move.
Everything leaks: spaceships, submarines, governmental agencies, bladders- they all leak. It, therefore, becomes a question of allowable leakage RATE. Gas appliance valves allow for 235cc/hr through the seals of a valve and 250 cc/hr through the main operator at 3/4 psi per ANSI. Yet, the gas codes, in their arrogance, simply stamp their feet and demand no detectable leakage. A gas piping system or component can be leaking, and the standard test miss it simply from the eyesight and patience of the inspector.
The test prescribed in the gas codes is considered a "pressure decay test". You pressurize then observe any detectable leakage from the equipment specified. An industry variation would be a differential decay test where the subject is tested against a reference piece known not to leak. The difference is the leakage rate. Again, gas is intolerant of any detectable decay. So, how to localize the problem? Well, you first need to consider what can cause needle drift on a 3 psi pressure decay test. You can have legitimate leaks- poorly formed threads, poorly sealed joints, faulty mating surfaces, improper types of valves and connections, a drop in temperature (even in one part of the grid), etc. The very test apparatus should periodically be bench tested for leaks. This may entail a submersion test for bubbles. This has limitations and is subjective. You may think you see micro bubbles leaking when, in fact, they were formed upon submersion and attached to the exterior of the device at a joint. It can be difficult to separate tiny bubbles continuing to stream out of a leak versus a growing thin film soap bubble. Soap bubble solutions notoriously have their own bubbles premixed from jostling around or hurried application.
The most common leak points are joints and devices. Sounds simple, right? Not so fast. It is too common to find a nail or screw piercing a CSST line. Water or oils in a sediment trap can absorb gas under pressure over time. This is why the old copper air chambers failed over time to provide water hammer buffering. They would fill with water as the air dissolved into solution. Poly gas lines used outside for in-ground trenching at pressures above 5 psi can expand under Hoop Stress causing vasodilation resulting in a drop in pressure from the increase in volume. Isolate plastic gas piping from hard pipes.
Pressure testing at greater than 1/2 psi/ 14 wci requires ALL appliances to be disconnected and the PIPING capped. Piping is within 6 LF of the appliance valve. Note that ground unions are notorious leakers. The mating surface is ground but not lapped in most cases. The brass ring inset was deformed and mated to that female coupling. Sometimes guys take them apart and mix mating pieces of used fittings. You want all new unions.
If anyone used unapproved fittings or made them up improperly, they can leak slowly. It is common to find compression joints on copper tubing as well as pipe dope or PTFE tape on flare joints or ground unions. These are metal to metal joints. Old ground key valves can leak. The 'Dante' floor/ wall key valves for gas fireplaces and log lighters are notorious leakers. These valves were typically rated at 3 psi only. High pressure testing ruined them causing leaks. We had to replace many. The newer ball valves are better. In fact, many current ANSI Z21.15 gas cocks and ball valves are tested only to 3 or 5 psi. Globe and gate valves are inappropriate. Swing joints are susceptible to leaks.
Some things may seem tight at test temperature but leak at operating temperature or vice versa. Static pressure decay testing is not representative of conditions of use. In a large building, I've seen a section exposed directly to the cold cause a pressure drop mimicking a leak even over a short test period. We separated the cold section in the unconditioned space from the heated space and both passed. Overnight testing is useless because of the temperature drop causing a false positive 'leak' when it's just Charles Law in effect.
You could try a variety of other leak detection methods including vacuum testing, static liquid pressure, electronic ion detection, ultrasonic detection, or tracer gas. Filling gas pipes with water may be the more effective but least practical, especially if the leak is in a wall. Oops. Tracing helium requires an expensive sniffer but comes with its own problems. Helium molecules are so tiny they can leak out of just about anything. You could find yourself chasing a ghost. Detection of refrigerant gases has been found to be rather reliable for very small leaks but not recommended for large leaks. You don't want the EPA mad at you.
For the OP's case, I'd strongly consider doing the refrigerant under low pressure with small holes poked into wall cavities and the sniffer inserted. Consider whether the test gas is lighter or heavier than air so you'll know where to test.
Re: Insulated return
i would be concerned that trying to cram insulation inside the baseboard covers would impede the airflow through the element.
unless there is something very wrong with the system with baseboard on a cast iron boiler the return water temp should be well above flue gas condensing temps.
Re: Compliance with NYC heating laws & resident comfort: send heat all day, or only when code requires?
I’m sorry, @ARobertson13 but are you busier than the rest of us? Back up your claim, please. “Look into the posting by Holahan” is not a mechanically sound reply and you’re speaking to mechanics here. I routinely recommend these products to my customers in NYC buildings of all sizes and commonly witness and enjoy their benefits and purely positive results.
They absolutely have their limitations and are often misapplied in an effort to resolve issues not related to their functionality. TRVs are easily defeated by over pressurized steam systems and require a significant differential to allow them to open and close in a hydronic application. But none of that speaks directly to support a claim they don’t work in tall buildings. It just means an installer and specifier needs to know what they’re doing.
Best to all,
John Cataneo, Master Plumber
JohnNY
DIY Radiator Bench Seat with Smart Home Integration
My wife recently decided she wanted to change our dining room layout to include corner bench seating, but we had a massive radiator right in the way. Since this is our only heat source in the room—a 20-section unit pushing about 53.4 EDR—simply boxing it in wasn't an option. We live in a 100-year-old home with a 2-pipe vapor system, and since moving in a year ago, I’ve been busy replacing steam traps and upgrading vents, so I didn't want a furniture project to ruin the system's efficiency.
With a bit of design help from AI, I built a bench that acts more like a high-output convector than a standard cover. The interior is fully lined with thermal foil so the wood doesn't soak up the heat, and I designed two arches at the floor to act as cold air intakes with a long rectangular exhaust vent at the top of the bench. To really move the air, I installed 10 ARCTIC P8 computer fans on a variable speed controller. I currently run them at 60% capacity to keep them whisper-quiet, which moves roughly 110 CFM. Using a temperature sensor in the chamber, the fans kick on at 90°F and shut down once it cools, with the chamber usually peaking around 125°F.
Regarding the data, the room is slightly slower to hit the initial setpoint compared to an exposed radiator, but I’ve noticed the time between heating cycles is now further apart. It seems the enclosure acts as a heat capacitor, providing a slower and more consistent release of warmth into the room. Between the bench design, the trap replacements, and general weatherization, my heating bills are down 20-30% this winter despite it being colder than last year. It’s been an awesome journey learning this system, and while I still have plenty more to do, I wanted to share this win with the community.
Jchenabc
Re: Damaged baseboard fins - Any way to bring back to life?
those aren't really that damaged but a pick and a small screwdriver and maybe a putty knife and some patience. there are fin tube combs for the small fins on ac components but I don't think they make one that big.
Re: Damaged baseboard fins - Any way to bring back to life?
and that much damage won't make much difference in the heat output.
Found a way to make really cool graphics for your training
I found a way to make some really cool graphics for my articles, videos etc. Go to your favorite AI. Mine is Grok Upload a picture of a component and ask it to make a vector image. Works really well. Below are some examples.
Re: Pipe Size
It will be better if you remove the smaller adapter and put the right one on. If the section of pie in question is horizontal or nearly so, there is a real risk of creating water hammer if you don't.
Re: Steam boiler fact checks
Yeah, I think they are trying to look smart. They should have consulted with you first as you know more than they do.
Re: Quieter zone valves than Taco Zone Sentry
The new Zone Sentry's make a much more muted sound than the ESP's; opening and closing. Not a grinding sound; more like a motor. You still hear them, especially in a quiet house.
My wife is always talking to me, but I'm unable to repeat anything she's told me. She had me take an audiology test two weeks ago and it came back normal. I told her I would remember more of what she told me if she only told me about the important things. That went over well.










