Best Of
Re: What size pex tubing do you recommend?
And I'm not arguing that a piece of concrete will melt snow or ice regardless of the size of, or spacing of, tubing in it.
I agree with that and have for years promoted tight 6" spacing, 10- 15 ∆ in residential heating, specifically for comfort, quick ramp, and lowest SWT. I don't see these 6" tube spacing numbers numbers being critical for SIM design.
My point is larger tube give you more BTU capacity, longer loop length, less pump power requirement. I doubt many are barefooted in carwash bays in the winter??
All I suggest is the OP read some of the attached info I present.
I suspect the screenshots I offered throughout this post were generated in SIM software from Uponor, PPI, Rehau, others.
There is no specific way SIM HAS to be done. But there are industry guidelines based on hundreds of systems that perform to expectations.
The tube size recommendations, the 25-30 delta, tube spacing, loop length, SWT, flow rate, etc, etc all come from the manufacturers design example. These are not numbers I'm pulling from thin air.
When you have a load calc done by one of the reps or manufacturers, and sign off on the assumption doc., they guarantee the system will perform as designed.
If someone designs for a 25- 30 and only attains a 50∆, they missed something. A 50∆ in a 200' loop seems awful high?
While running tighter delta increases the slab btu output a 20∆ probably isn't juice worth the squeeze for melting snow, considering the pumping power required to get there. An example attached of 3 different ∆Ts and their output change. Same SWT in all cases. I'm seeing a specific pattern from the 3 or so examples I have shown which is 5/8 or 3/4 tube size, 25- 30 delta.
( a heat transfer demo example, not intended for a SIM design) Tighter ∆ obtained by higher flow rate= higher BTU output in the loop and section of slab it is in. You would see the same variance if you plotted a 20, 30 and 50∆ for a SIM example. Which is why I suspect the industry looks at 25- 30 ∆ in SIM designs, reasonable output, reasonable pump requirement. Which is mentioned in all the manufacturers guidelines.
Pinning down the BTU required for the OP specific job is best accomplished by the industry guidelines, in my opinion.
I did check around some carwash forms and found even wilder suggestions of 100,000 btu/hr/ bay!?
Although in the OP case the 125 btu/ hr I suggested comes out to 75,000 BTU/hr. per bay. A bit shy of what the owner/ operators on those forums suggest.
Granted these attached designs are snowmelt, the concept of melting snow or warming a slab to melt ice, and turn to liquid, or keep the floor ice free, maybe even dry after evaporation, within the same temperature ∆ would be similar in my mind. At days end we are trying to keep the slab surface around 38°F at a specific OAT.
Digging deeper at all the manufacturers sites may turn up a 3 walled carwash specific design. My money suggests they would be 100 btu/ft or higher designs.
Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just parroting readily available, industry accepted numbers and suggestions.
I suppose 1/4 copper tube loops 25' long at 2" OC could be made to work also😉
hot_rod
Re: Universal replacement boards for modern furnaces
The Universal Honeywell EFT covers all of Honeywells EFT's including the one for Smart Valve. It does not however replace the ST9162 series which is for the Two Stage Honeywell Smart Valve.
So the Honeywell S9200U-1000 is the Universal Integrated Furnace Control replacement. It replaces United Technologies, Rheem/Robertshaw, Nordyne, Texas Instrument, York, Lennox, White-Rodgers, Goodman and ICM.
The Universal Electronic Fan Timer is the ST9120U - 1003 it replaces 25 Honeywell Controls, central wiring for most of the components on the furnace, controls heat and cooling and constant fan applications, runs the induced draft blower and the circulating fan, monitors limits and other controls, has a field replaceable fuse and dip switch settings to control fan on and off times.
Now I do not have to e-mail you Honeywell. I will however e-mail you info about White Rodgers.
Re: OT: Underground Wiring Options
That wouldn't cut it here. They would want it opened a second time.
pecmsg
Re: OT: Underground Wiring Options
Depending on your local ordinances a permit may be required for the work you are presently doing. Also some inspectors get weird about the use of an underground conduit if the trench was back filled without it ever being inspected. I guess take good picture of the quality and depth.
Re: OT: Underground Wiring Options
Here is depends a whole lot on who you are, if they think you know what you're doing and don't feel like you are trying to hide something from them they will let you tell them about something rather than having to see it if it got concealed.
Re: OT: Underground Wiring Options
my strategy was to ptu it in the trench and take pictures and deal with a permit when i wanted to hook it up.
Re: Lennox Model HS24-411-1P WITH C16-41-1FF COIL
Looks like 3 tons.
Literally the first Google result.
Re: Worst advertising
I use them.
I think the typical plumber jokes would suggest 90% of plumbers should be wearing them.
ChrisJ






