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Re: Door blower test came back 2000 below 4k sq ft - ERV recommended
They typically get tied into the HVAC distribution system.
Usually an interlock to run the fan on an AE.
You could do bath exhaust on timers.
Usually an interlock to run the fan on an AE.
You could do bath exhaust on timers.
HVACNUT
3
Re: Another Moline System
The house pre-dates the system by many years.jumper said:In Michigan real estate they call an area that is more or less a crawl space with a bit more head room a "Michigan basement". It isn't really habitable space and usually has a mishmash of floor elevations and usually dirt floor.Cities condemned homes without heating systems. Houses were rehabilitated by digging out enough space to instal heater. But Moline was cadillac grade so one would expect a nice basement?
Ironman
1
Are bushings & plugs leakers?
JMHO they are not the best fitting to use, but sometimes you don't have a choice. Putting a vent alarm in an oil tank for instance. 2" tapping in the tank and the vent alarm is 1 1/4 in some cases. Yeah, you could use a 2" VA with a reducing coupling on it but that's extra $$$$$
I learned my lesson once about bushings and pipe plugs. MA used to have their own oil code which required the manufacturer to pressure test their oil tanks to 5psi. (both inside and underground tanks) I know for a fact some did not do this.
Working for an oil company back in the day we installed a lot of tanks. Everything from 275s up to 20,000 gallons and 50 years ago New England was 80% heated by oil.
In MA. the local Fire Dept. is responsible for oil burner and tank inspections. We had one town that would make us pressure test any underground tank after it was set in place but before being backfilled.
The Chiefs reasoning was even if it was factory tested it could have been damaged on the road or while being set in place. The tank companies you to have the big tanks delivered on a low bed tractor trailer. The driver would show up with a bunch of used tires and a rope. He would tie the rope to the tank lifting lugs and around the trailer tie down to act as a pulley and push the tank off onto the used tires .
Back to the bushings and plugs. So I had one to test and it would not hold 5 psi after being set in place and the GC was getting on my nerves about wanting to backfill and the fire chief was scheduled to show up after lunch and at 19 years old I barely knew what a pipe wrench was. As it was a 20,000-gallon tank I had to go rent a huge tow behind air compressor (like you would use for a jack hammer)
I called my boss and told him it was leaking where the plugs threaded into the tank bungs, and I had taken them in and out used big wrenches and Teflon tape and 3 different kinds of pipe dope.
He told me to take out any plugs and bushings and replace them with 6" nipples and caps. I did that and it worked the first time and passed the test.
When I got back to the shop, he explained that sometimes when the bungs are welded in the tank, they may get more weld on one side than the other. The weld metal shrinks when it cools and makes the bung not truly round maybe slightly oval. A plug or bushing being cast iron can't conform to the hole, so it leaks.
Putting in a long nipple and a cap give the nipple a chance to "go oval" and conform to the shape of the bung.
That is why bushings and plugs tend to leak, not always their problem it's what it is being threaded into. Same think with close nipples.
I learned my lesson once about bushings and pipe plugs. MA used to have their own oil code which required the manufacturer to pressure test their oil tanks to 5psi. (both inside and underground tanks) I know for a fact some did not do this.
Working for an oil company back in the day we installed a lot of tanks. Everything from 275s up to 20,000 gallons and 50 years ago New England was 80% heated by oil.
In MA. the local Fire Dept. is responsible for oil burner and tank inspections. We had one town that would make us pressure test any underground tank after it was set in place but before being backfilled.
The Chiefs reasoning was even if it was factory tested it could have been damaged on the road or while being set in place. The tank companies you to have the big tanks delivered on a low bed tractor trailer. The driver would show up with a bunch of used tires and a rope. He would tie the rope to the tank lifting lugs and around the trailer tie down to act as a pulley and push the tank off onto the used tires .
Back to the bushings and plugs. So I had one to test and it would not hold 5 psi after being set in place and the GC was getting on my nerves about wanting to backfill and the fire chief was scheduled to show up after lunch and at 19 years old I barely knew what a pipe wrench was. As it was a 20,000-gallon tank I had to go rent a huge tow behind air compressor (like you would use for a jack hammer)
I called my boss and told him it was leaking where the plugs threaded into the tank bungs, and I had taken them in and out used big wrenches and Teflon tape and 3 different kinds of pipe dope.
He told me to take out any plugs and bushings and replace them with 6" nipples and caps. I did that and it worked the first time and passed the test.
When I got back to the shop, he explained that sometimes when the bungs are welded in the tank, they may get more weld on one side than the other. The weld metal shrinks when it cools and makes the bung not truly round maybe slightly oval. A plug or bushing being cast iron can't conform to the hole, so it leaks.
Putting in a long nipple and a cap give the nipple a chance to "go oval" and conform to the shape of the bung.
That is why bushings and plugs tend to leak, not always their problem it's what it is being threaded into. Same think with close nipples.
Re: Radiant System not heating
Water out of the expansion tank? Where? There should be an air valve on the tank -- a Schrader valve, on the end opposite the connection to the plumbing. If you got water out there, the tank is done and you need a new one...
Re: Atmospheric boiler efficiency
The boiler of any given size can only absorb so much heat. The boiler MFGs are all in competition to compete with each other on a price point. Companies like HB Smith sized their boilers a little more conservatively that is why they are basically out of business.
Boiler mfgs push their output up to use a smaller boiler to be competitive. If one boiler mfg. uses a 3-section boiler and one uses a 4-section boiler to get the same heat output the 3-section boiler is likely less $$$. Longer life better efficiency are obtained by reducing the btu input and output. JMHO
If you fire the boiler with less input the stack temperature must come down. If the other #s stay about the same your efficiency has to increase. Combustion analyzers don't know BTU input, but they do measure stack temp.
Now if you under fire the boiler too much thing will go in the wrong direction. Flue temps drop too low and condensation results. Warm up time gets longer and burns mor fuel.
I am talking a 5-15% decrease in the maximum firing rate.
Boiler mfgs push their output up to use a smaller boiler to be competitive. If one boiler mfg. uses a 3-section boiler and one uses a 4-section boiler to get the same heat output the 3-section boiler is likely less $$$. Longer life better efficiency are obtained by reducing the btu input and output. JMHO
If you fire the boiler with less input the stack temperature must come down. If the other #s stay about the same your efficiency has to increase. Combustion analyzers don't know BTU input, but they do measure stack temp.
Now if you under fire the boiler too much thing will go in the wrong direction. Flue temps drop too low and condensation results. Warm up time gets longer and burns mor fuel.
I am talking a 5-15% decrease in the maximum firing rate.
Re: Are mod-con high efficiency boilers false economy Vs traditional cast iron over a longer time frame?
Hey just to stir the pot all these incentives and rebates who you think is paying for it ? Do you think it’s a free money give away heck no that’s our tax paying being giving to some one who correctly fills out paper work and they get our money . It’s not the utlities money or the stock holders it’s our money it’s our free non existing form of barber called money . . In a lot of cases if the rebate is spoken about and not recieved the contractor ends up w mud on there face and an angry customer who excepted some refund coin . I leave all rebates and thoughts of rebates to the customer alone I never entertain the thoughts . I ve seen a lot of people who where better off money wise then everyone I ever known apply and get rebates on all sorts on nonsense which I find unethical being in short just milking the system and getting something for free just cause you can ,I find it even more disgusting when commercial building owners who neglect there hvac system for multi decades and get a 40 % discount of complete high eff package units w duct work and financing when they own the building are loaded but they hid there money and got us to pay for it . Being they have zero money are poor but yet own a commercial building which I believe they collect rent on strange dealo . Greed this is always after a total waste of my time fiquring out a job which I will not get because they can get it for 1/2 price from the gas or electric co .
Please don’t get me wrong I love mod cons love the tech the eff but what I dislike is putting the squeeze on customers who except 20 or 30 years for a boiler and to get sucker in replacement in 10 to 15 ,come on where s the eff of that only eff is the return customer to replace there wall hung when no one can it repair or the return on the investment of the repair is not merited , where is the Enviromental concerns of waste and energy required to make all this disposable junk ,not a concern it keeps the global economy functioning some what . There’s your bigger question . Is what you doing serving man kind conserving the natural resources and doing a service to man kind by conserving these things and not repeating the same over and over . Quite a predicament we find ourselves in possibly moral being the moral of needing more to continue in a constant non advancing circle of non logic running around in a circle getting zero done I think that’s no good .
I’m hoping one day the only thing needed to heat a home is a fart that low of a Btu requirement we would all be outta job but image zero co emissions next bring back the dinosaurs and we can start all over again and maybe not make the same mistakes over and over again .
Remember just stirring a pot
Peace and good luck clammy and happy and safe holidays to all ,no matter which pagan celebration you enjoy on this plain of duality . I like the wearing of goat leggings and Viking horns while slamming mead . lol
Please don’t get me wrong I love mod cons love the tech the eff but what I dislike is putting the squeeze on customers who except 20 or 30 years for a boiler and to get sucker in replacement in 10 to 15 ,come on where s the eff of that only eff is the return customer to replace there wall hung when no one can it repair or the return on the investment of the repair is not merited , where is the Enviromental concerns of waste and energy required to make all this disposable junk ,not a concern it keeps the global economy functioning some what . There’s your bigger question . Is what you doing serving man kind conserving the natural resources and doing a service to man kind by conserving these things and not repeating the same over and over . Quite a predicament we find ourselves in possibly moral being the moral of needing more to continue in a constant non advancing circle of non logic running around in a circle getting zero done I think that’s no good .
I’m hoping one day the only thing needed to heat a home is a fart that low of a Btu requirement we would all be outta job but image zero co emissions next bring back the dinosaurs and we can start all over again and maybe not make the same mistakes over and over again .
Remember just stirring a pot
Peace and good luck clammy and happy and safe holidays to all ,no matter which pagan celebration you enjoy on this plain of duality . I like the wearing of goat leggings and Viking horns while slamming mead . lol
clammy
2
Re: What is acceptable delta T
So Mike,
as long as I am significantly above the minimum gpm (12 gpm), we should be OK? With the pump I was going to use, we'd probably have a 25 delta T. Currentlt, with our oversized pump running and our furthest air handler calling for heat, our delta T is about 1. Which reminds me, to set the flow, I was told that we should have all zones calling for heat and then throttle back the globe valve at the boiler pump outlet to get about 25 delta tee. Is that correct?
as long as I am significantly above the minimum gpm (12 gpm), we should be OK? With the pump I was going to use, we'd probably have a 25 delta T. Currentlt, with our oversized pump running and our furthest air handler calling for heat, our delta T is about 1. Which reminds me, to set the flow, I was told that we should have all zones calling for heat and then throttle back the globe valve at the boiler pump outlet to get about 25 delta tee. Is that correct?
1
Re: Are mod-con high efficiency boilers false economy Vs traditional cast iron over a longer time frame?
@PC7060
Your right. But some consider heating and AC as an evil that they have to pay to operate in fuel costs, pay to have it serviced and pay to have it installed /replaced. They see no value in it. They would rather spend their money on a new car or truck, a swimming pool, deck, hot tub etc that their friends and neighbors can see and use.
Your right. But some consider heating and AC as an evil that they have to pay to operate in fuel costs, pay to have it serviced and pay to have it installed /replaced. They see no value in it. They would rather spend their money on a new car or truck, a swimming pool, deck, hot tub etc that their friends and neighbors can see and use.
Re: Link to news article about heating fuel sources
What was that quote about statistics? There are lies... etc. Nothing wrong with the map. Nothing wrong with the percentages. In completely ignoring differing climates, the variability of access and differences in regional pricing, misleading at best.
Take the northeast and Alaska and their concentration of oil burning vs. other sources. Could it possibly have something to do with no or very limited access to natural gas? Sky high propane prices? Astronomical electricity rates? Consider the concentration of electricity in the south. Coud it possibly have something to do with a remarkably benign winter climate and a need for air conditioning instead? How about propane in the mid-west? Maybe it's favoured by low prices due to extensive agricultural use and no natural gas availability?
And so on. You have to look at the whole picture...
Take the northeast and Alaska and their concentration of oil burning vs. other sources. Could it possibly have something to do with no or very limited access to natural gas? Sky high propane prices? Astronomical electricity rates? Consider the concentration of electricity in the south. Coud it possibly have something to do with a remarkably benign winter climate and a need for air conditioning instead? How about propane in the mid-west? Maybe it's favoured by low prices due to extensive agricultural use and no natural gas availability?
And so on. You have to look at the whole picture...
Re: Link to news article about heating fuel sources
The American Community Survey fails to take into account the number of coal users in the nothern states and Alaska. The number of households and businesses that burn, lignite coal, Sub Bituminous Coal, Bituminous coal and Anthracite coal are growing.
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