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Re: Gravity supply tank replacement
I was surprised to see it even had a pilot safety on it under the burner cover. use to see the old valves with even a manual open lever. Ha, that was not such a great idea. That is as simple as it gets boiler. We just re worked some gravity piping for a house last week. Was not working well until we re routed a pipe and flushed the partly blocked underground return. Cool old beasts. She might want to have someone add a low water cutoff to the old beast.
Re: Correcting the code inspector
In New York State the local building department has to petition the state to exceed the standard code. The form they need is attached.
Department of State
Division of Building Standards
and Codes
One Commerce Plaza
99 Washington Avenue, Suite 1160
Albany, NY 12231-0001
Phone: (518) 474-4073
Fax: (518) 486-4487
www.dos.ny.gov
Notice and Petition Relating to More Restrictive Construction
Standards (Uniform Code – Executive Law § 379
Department of State
Division of Building Standards
and Codes
One Commerce Plaza
99 Washington Avenue, Suite 1160
Albany, NY 12231-0001
Phone: (518) 474-4073
Fax: (518) 486-4487
www.dos.ny.gov
Notice and Petition Relating to More Restrictive Construction
Standards (Uniform Code – Executive Law § 379
CFH
1
Re: Correcting the code inspector
One of my best stories happened when I was 19. I have been doing this working for the family business for as long as I can remember so I had a lot of experience under my belt at this point but I looked like I was 15.
Some back story: My city went through a brief period where the AHJ decided that we were not allowed to use unions on gas lines any more, instead we were required to use LR nipples and couplings. No idea why and it was changed back the next year. We had installed a buried gas line (PE with anodeless risers) from the meter which was at the street to the house ~20'. Got an inspection with the line under 20 PSI and now had to get a final inspection with the line connected back to the house. I made two swing joints with 4 90's and some nipples and the LR coupling and nipple in between the two sets of 90's which allowed me to start the threads and tighten the coupling and everything pulled straight once the LR coupling was tight. Painted it, turned the gas on, checked for leaks, lit pilots and waited for the inspector.
He shows up and it was his second day on the job and boy was he an arrogant son of a......
He walks up to see little 19 year old me standing proudly next to my work.
Now at this point I have to tell you that the LR couplings that were being sold at my supply house at the time did not have hubs, they instead looked like thread protectors, except they had a big 'LR' stamped in the side. They were proper couplings with tapered threads, they just looked weird.
So up walks this inspector doesn't say a word just stares at the piping scowling for a good 2 or 3 minutes from 10' away. Finally he looks at me and says "Well, thread protectors are not allowed to be used on gas, but I'll let this one slide." To which I respond "That's not a thread protector its actually a LR coupling see? (pointing to stamp on coupling) anyways I wouldn't have been able to get this together without using a LR coupling and nipple." and being the little **** that I was (am?) I then said "so you would let a thread protector go? to my knowledge they have never been approved as fittings because the lack of tapered threads does not make for a good seal." He angrily scrawls a signature on the inspection ticket and walks off without saying a word.
He had so many complaints filed against him that he was taken out of the field after about two months. I heard though I never confirmed it that he threatened to call our local utility and request that they interrupt electrical service to a house undergoing a bathroom remodel when he walked in to do the rough inspections and saw an outlet without a cover on it in a room not associated with the remodel that the HO's were getting ready to paint. Gotta wonder sometimes.....
I think that most inspectors are doing a hard job as well as they can. I always try to be on site when the inspector is there to answer any questions and solve any problems right away. There are a few that I have seen though that just want to be "right" and are doing the job because they get some weird power trip from it. Those can be difficult to deal with, but it is usually an easy call to ask them to give you code citation for their requirement, or as SWEI says go a couple rungs up the ladder and it is solved easily.
Some back story: My city went through a brief period where the AHJ decided that we were not allowed to use unions on gas lines any more, instead we were required to use LR nipples and couplings. No idea why and it was changed back the next year. We had installed a buried gas line (PE with anodeless risers) from the meter which was at the street to the house ~20'. Got an inspection with the line under 20 PSI and now had to get a final inspection with the line connected back to the house. I made two swing joints with 4 90's and some nipples and the LR coupling and nipple in between the two sets of 90's which allowed me to start the threads and tighten the coupling and everything pulled straight once the LR coupling was tight. Painted it, turned the gas on, checked for leaks, lit pilots and waited for the inspector.
He shows up and it was his second day on the job and boy was he an arrogant son of a......
He walks up to see little 19 year old me standing proudly next to my work.
Now at this point I have to tell you that the LR couplings that were being sold at my supply house at the time did not have hubs, they instead looked like thread protectors, except they had a big 'LR' stamped in the side. They were proper couplings with tapered threads, they just looked weird.
So up walks this inspector doesn't say a word just stares at the piping scowling for a good 2 or 3 minutes from 10' away. Finally he looks at me and says "Well, thread protectors are not allowed to be used on gas, but I'll let this one slide." To which I respond "That's not a thread protector its actually a LR coupling see? (pointing to stamp on coupling) anyways I wouldn't have been able to get this together without using a LR coupling and nipple." and being the little **** that I was (am?) I then said "so you would let a thread protector go? to my knowledge they have never been approved as fittings because the lack of tapered threads does not make for a good seal." He angrily scrawls a signature on the inspection ticket and walks off without saying a word.
He had so many complaints filed against him that he was taken out of the field after about two months. I heard though I never confirmed it that he threatened to call our local utility and request that they interrupt electrical service to a house undergoing a bathroom remodel when he walked in to do the rough inspections and saw an outlet without a cover on it in a room not associated with the remodel that the HO's were getting ready to paint. Gotta wonder sometimes.....
I think that most inspectors are doing a hard job as well as they can. I always try to be on site when the inspector is there to answer any questions and solve any problems right away. There are a few that I have seen though that just want to be "right" and are doing the job because they get some weird power trip from it. Those can be difficult to deal with, but it is usually an easy call to ask them to give you code citation for their requirement, or as SWEI says go a couple rungs up the ladder and it is solved easily.
delta T
1
Correcting the code inspector
About a year ago I was having dinner with an engineer who worked on a number of large commercial projects in the New York metro area. He mentioned that he sometimes had a code inspector ask for changes which weren't required by the code. He said he handled this by asking the inspector for a code citation because the company required that he give a citation for any work order for changes. The inspector invariably backed down after consulting the code.
How often does this situation happen to you folks? How do you handle it?
How often does this situation happen to you folks? How do you handle it?
CLamb
1
Re: Long term designed and supported mod-con fantasy?
Chicken or the egg. If they built a 50 year mod con would you pay for it and the manufacturer to support it, inventory parts for 50 years?
Look how we have evolved from the earliest condensors, dating to the late 80's
Even a simple device like an end switch, micro switch. A manufacturer will ask what cycle life are you looking for? They can build a 50, 100, or 200,000 cycle switch. Doesn't sound like a big deal to pay a buck or so more for the best switch. Now multiply that times millions of switches.
Ever stumble across a SunnyWell knock off zone valve
We cycle tested them to death, just about 1 years worth of service.
If I were a betting man I would suggest Harbor f asks for the least expensive, shortest cycle life for many of their products. I've gotten two jobs out of some of their tools
In much of Europe people live in homes for generations. You may see three generations under one roof when you visit. Interesting that 20 year products, boilers, appliances, etc are what you see.
I will say they spend big $$ for kitchen cabinets. They get installed on this unistrut looking frame and you take them with you if you move. Crazy
Look how we have evolved from the earliest condensors, dating to the late 80's
Even a simple device like an end switch, micro switch. A manufacturer will ask what cycle life are you looking for? They can build a 50, 100, or 200,000 cycle switch. Doesn't sound like a big deal to pay a buck or so more for the best switch. Now multiply that times millions of switches.
Ever stumble across a SunnyWell knock off zone valve
We cycle tested them to death, just about 1 years worth of service.If I were a betting man I would suggest Harbor f asks for the least expensive, shortest cycle life for many of their products. I've gotten two jobs out of some of their tools
In much of Europe people live in homes for generations. You may see three generations under one roof when you visit. Interesting that 20 year products, boilers, appliances, etc are what you see.
I will say they spend big $$ for kitchen cabinets. They get installed on this unistrut looking frame and you take them with you if you move. Crazy
hot_rod
3
Utica 95M-200 gas condensing boiler
Full disclosure, I'm not a heating contractor. My post is to provide helpful information.
12 years ago I installed a new Utica 95M-200 gas condensing boiler, (myself). I'll get some flak for that but I was more than experienced to do this and it ran 12 years flawlessly.
In early winter last year I started to experience shut downs. I could get it reset and fire up again but the shut downs continued. In my area no heating contractor wanted to touch this thing and just wanted to install a new system. I wasn't going to do that, I was determined to fix this unit. I read a number of posts on this forum on these units and one fellow in particular seems particularly schooled in working on them, he's posts and comments were very helpful.
Utica would not talk to me because I was not a heating contractor, so be it. Now here's the kicker. The error code that kept coming up was E-65. The fix, inspect wiring and connections, if that doesn't fix the issue replace the blower and if that doesn't fix the issue replace the control module.
The module was the least costly of the two fixes. Replaced it but didn't fix the problem. Replaced the blower and it ran fine for about 2 weeks and started flashing E-65 again. The blower supplier agreed to send a replacement which was installed. This blower was noisy but worked ok for awhile but also had to be replaced.
Now I was on the third blower. This one ran fine but when I put the boiled shroud back on the unit would eventually shut down again flashing E-65 again. (note, this third blower was manufactured in Germany). I did not pay attention to where the first two blowers were made.
I tried other solutions, (parts replacements), nothing worked. Finally I found a contractor familiar with this boiler who was willing to work with me. In his first visit he contacted a tech at Utica who said I needed to replace the wiring harness. (I had the contractor do this, expensive and it did not fix the problem). A few days later he came again and got another Utica tech on the phone. (supposedly their most experienced tech). As soon as the heating guy explained everything that had be going on, the tech said, "replace the blower"! Whaaaat? They sent the contractor a brand new blower (free of charge), (took awhile, and they would not send it to me). He got the new blower and dropped it of to me, (he new I could install it myself which I did). Note: this 4th blower was manufactured in the Chek Republic for Utica.
Bottom line this blower has been working fine, much quieter and I was able to re-install the boiler shroud with no negative effects. The boiler is again running perfectly, (knock on wood).
I spent about $3000 in parts and labor to fix this unit, (still cheaper than replacing it). Who would guess you would have to replace the blower 4 times!! Many lessons learned!! Hope this post helps somebody!
Gene
12 years ago I installed a new Utica 95M-200 gas condensing boiler, (myself). I'll get some flak for that but I was more than experienced to do this and it ran 12 years flawlessly.
In early winter last year I started to experience shut downs. I could get it reset and fire up again but the shut downs continued. In my area no heating contractor wanted to touch this thing and just wanted to install a new system. I wasn't going to do that, I was determined to fix this unit. I read a number of posts on this forum on these units and one fellow in particular seems particularly schooled in working on them, he's posts and comments were very helpful.
Utica would not talk to me because I was not a heating contractor, so be it. Now here's the kicker. The error code that kept coming up was E-65. The fix, inspect wiring and connections, if that doesn't fix the issue replace the blower and if that doesn't fix the issue replace the control module.
The module was the least costly of the two fixes. Replaced it but didn't fix the problem. Replaced the blower and it ran fine for about 2 weeks and started flashing E-65 again. The blower supplier agreed to send a replacement which was installed. This blower was noisy but worked ok for awhile but also had to be replaced.
Now I was on the third blower. This one ran fine but when I put the boiled shroud back on the unit would eventually shut down again flashing E-65 again. (note, this third blower was manufactured in Germany). I did not pay attention to where the first two blowers were made.
I tried other solutions, (parts replacements), nothing worked. Finally I found a contractor familiar with this boiler who was willing to work with me. In his first visit he contacted a tech at Utica who said I needed to replace the wiring harness. (I had the contractor do this, expensive and it did not fix the problem). A few days later he came again and got another Utica tech on the phone. (supposedly their most experienced tech). As soon as the heating guy explained everything that had be going on, the tech said, "replace the blower"! Whaaaat? They sent the contractor a brand new blower (free of charge), (took awhile, and they would not send it to me). He got the new blower and dropped it of to me, (he new I could install it myself which I did). Note: this 4th blower was manufactured in the Chek Republic for Utica.
Bottom line this blower has been working fine, much quieter and I was able to re-install the boiler shroud with no negative effects. The boiler is again running perfectly, (knock on wood).
I spent about $3000 in parts and labor to fix this unit, (still cheaper than replacing it). Who would guess you would have to replace the blower 4 times!! Many lessons learned!! Hope this post helps somebody!
Gene
TBird427
1
Re: Softener, PRV, Expansion Tank
Most tanks have heat trapper nipples, either a rubber flapper or plastic ball inside. I don't think they are a "bubble tight" seal, so the pressure would bleed through to the tank. I can blow through this one, the flapper is a bit smaller than the ID of the nipple.The expansion tank is on the cold side of the water heater. Is there a heat trapping nipple or check valve on the cold inlet?You wouldn't think so from the factory as most of them rely on the city water (without PRV etc) or well tank for expansion purposes.
Though, now that you mention it, it looks like they did use dielectric unions which isn't necessary on a Bradford White and in my opinion, would likely cause more issues than they solve. But that's a totally different subject.
hot_rod
2
Re: Like a boy with new Toy Blocks & Erector set at Christmas 🎄
Its a factory epoxy...I prefer this connection for the following reasons:
1) I can't stand PVC closet flanges or the metal ring type. I've see the metal ones rust off after 10 years and the pvc ones get brittle an snap off...NOW YOURE SCREWED!
2) a Lead bend is very tight dimensionially, yet a nice 👌 radius for flow.
3) I can roll a lead bend on unorthodox angles (where fittings can't) to avoid cutting floor joists.
4) I leave a 6" x 12" pvc sleeve around the lead bend so the tile guy doesn't bury me like the always seem to. When Mud job and tile are complete, I can wiggle out the sleeve and now I've got ample room to kick the lead in any direction I want to dial in my wall distance gap to the tank. Every bowl is different and there's nothing I hate more than seeing 2"s between the back of the toilet 🚻 tank and the wall!!!
5) The Brass closet flange soldered to the lead bend will likely hold up longer than the pvc itself...time will tell.
That's why I love 💘 lead bends. Mad Dog 🐕
1) I can't stand PVC closet flanges or the metal ring type. I've see the metal ones rust off after 10 years and the pvc ones get brittle an snap off...NOW YOURE SCREWED!
2) a Lead bend is very tight dimensionially, yet a nice 👌 radius for flow.
3) I can roll a lead bend on unorthodox angles (where fittings can't) to avoid cutting floor joists.
4) I leave a 6" x 12" pvc sleeve around the lead bend so the tile guy doesn't bury me like the always seem to. When Mud job and tile are complete, I can wiggle out the sleeve and now I've got ample room to kick the lead in any direction I want to dial in my wall distance gap to the tank. Every bowl is different and there's nothing I hate more than seeing 2"s between the back of the toilet 🚻 tank and the wall!!!
5) The Brass closet flange soldered to the lead bend will likely hold up longer than the pvc itself...time will tell.
That's why I love 💘 lead bends. Mad Dog 🐕
Re: Need advice on Low-Water Cut-Off water feeder
Cut out what you can , then run a tap to clean the threads ..
Big Ed_4
1
Zone Problems with Boiler
I have a gas boiler HW heating system with a taco circulator pump for each zone that worked fine last season. When turning it on for the 1st time this season I found a problem with the boiler not running on one of the zones.
If I turn on the heat to zone 1 I hear the system actuate(clicks and such)and the boiler fires up and runs for about a minute and then shuts down.
If I turn on the heat to zone 1 I hear the system actuate(clicks and such)and the boiler fires up and runs for about a minute and then shuts down.
If I turn on the heat to zone 2 the system actuates and the boiler fires up and runs fine.
While zone 2 is running if I turn up the thermostat for zone 1 the circulator pump turns on and runs fine for zone 1. But, when I turn down the thermostat for zone 2 the boiler shuts down even though zone 1 is still calling for heat.
I attempted to figure a solution searching online and since it had an old/original S8610U Intermittent Pilot Control Module I swapped that out today with no improvement.
While zone 2 is running if I turn up the thermostat for zone 1 the circulator pump turns on and runs fine for zone 1. But, when I turn down the thermostat for zone 2 the boiler shuts down even though zone 1 is still calling for heat.
I attempted to figure a solution searching online and since it had an old/original S8610U Intermittent Pilot Control Module I swapped that out today with no improvement.
EDIT - PROBLEM RESOLVED!
A shout out to user Intplm for having me look at the most obvious thing that I should have realized to do in the 1st place.
A shout out to user Intplm for having me look at the most obvious thing that I should have realized to do in the 1st place.
When I turned the thermostat up to call for heat in zone 1(1st floor) the boiler responded, ignited and ran for around a full minute each time. This made me just skip the step of checking the thermostat since a signal was obviously getting to the boiler.
The existing thermostat is a dumb, heat only Honeywell ct87k that is 5 years old. Since the unit was responding to the thermostat I figured it was a long shot but I followed the advice of Intplm and jumped the wires at the thermostat and the system not only responded and fired up, but it kept running normally. I just finished installing a new Honeywell ck87k that I grabbed at Lowe’s and the system is running fine.
Being such a rudimentary heat only thermostat I figured if the system responded and ran for at least a minute the comms from the Thermostat were fine.
Thank you all for your responses and help with this!
The existing thermostat is a dumb, heat only Honeywell ct87k that is 5 years old. Since the unit was responding to the thermostat I figured it was a long shot but I followed the advice of Intplm and jumped the wires at the thermostat and the system not only responded and fired up, but it kept running normally. I just finished installing a new Honeywell ck87k that I grabbed at Lowe’s and the system is running fine.
Being such a rudimentary heat only thermostat I figured if the system responded and ran for at least a minute the comms from the Thermostat were fine.
Thank you all for your responses and help with this!
