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Cast iron baseboard keeps busting
The house was built in 1957 and we had a new gas furnace put in 2013. We were able to heat all three zones and get them going good. Fast forward to 2020, we could only heat up one zone at a time and it wouldn’t get above 70. Right after this started we had two baseboards give out. Loud pop and water coming out of the cast iron baseboard. We had those broken ones replaced and everything was good for a week— the zones all heated up properly. Now, today the heat went back to a zone at a time and I just had another old baseboard on a different zone bust. Is this just old age or is air getting into the system and causing this? Not a lot of plumbers will touch this stuff or know much about it. Any help would be appreciated on where I can look to see what’s causing this, if anything.
Re: The First Hotel to Have Individualized Room Temp Control for Guests
I have seen a couple really old Johnson Pneumatic control jobs. Today they use plastic pneumatic tubing in the rare case where pneumatic controls are used. One place they are still used is in hazardous locations...fumes etc...no sparks from pneumatics.
The older jobs installed in the 40s-60s use 1/4" copper tubing with soldered joints.
I have seen really old jobs pipes in 1/4" brass pipe with all threaded joints
The older jobs installed in the 40s-60s use 1/4" copper tubing with soldered joints.
I have seen really old jobs pipes in 1/4" brass pipe with all threaded joints
Re: A blast from the past.
One thing about a coal burning device using bituminous (soft) coal, they smoked the most when the operator would disturb the burning coal pile or when adding coal on a "hand fired" unit. Most of the furnace operators thought that digging into the burning coal pile and moving the coal around was a necessity; it was not. Also a lot of the smoke could be eliminated by introducing fresh air above the burning coal pile. That fresh air would allow the smoke to be consumed and thus be reduced or eliminated.
Hard coal or anthracite burns almost smoke free. The flame looks like the blue flame from a natural gas kitchen stove. The problem with anthracite coal was it's cost which was many times more expensive than bituminous coal and is only mined in north east Pa. near hazelton and Scranton. (You know Scranton, that is where "Joe" is from).
Hard coal or anthracite burns almost smoke free. The flame looks like the blue flame from a natural gas kitchen stove. The problem with anthracite coal was it's cost which was many times more expensive than bituminous coal and is only mined in north east Pa. near hazelton and Scranton. (You know Scranton, that is where "Joe" is from).
Re: Condensation Issues in Chimney with New Boiler
Wow. This is like deja vu all over again. I have the same situation and it only became apparent during the last few weeks during some cold snaps here in SE CT. Same boiler, 3 sided chimney, etc. What can I expect to pay to have it lined? House is a 1 story with walk out basement and boiler is on the walk out side, so I estimate chimney is maybe 20'. Flue tile looks to be 8 x 12 but I have to get up there and measure to be sure. Some water is leaking around the clean out door in basement but some is just coming through the concrete in a rectangular area about a foot under the clean out. I assume this is a hollow area that just collects water and then it seeps through the concrete.
MikeC555
1
Re: Condensation Issues in Chimney with New Boiler
Well, the raised stack temp helped a lot but there is still a fair amount of condensation. In goes the liner ASAP. I'll keep you posted.
dziukap
1
Re: Condensation Issues in Chimney with New Boiler
The bottom line to the OP is if your getting condensate on the floor from the flue it's time to line the flue, and insulate it.
Lining does not stop condensate alone but it protects the masonary from damage due to corrosive condensate. Insulating will allow that liner to warm up quicker, and stay warm longer.
Lining does not stop condensate alone but it protects the masonary from damage due to corrosive condensate. Insulating will allow that liner to warm up quicker, and stay warm longer.
Gordy
4
Re: Condensation Issues in Chimney with New Boiler
I think it's fair to the OP to explain what exactly happens that leads to the need to change a flue configuration.
These are changes not only to the heating plant, but to the rest of the structure over the course of years since its conception.
Usually with older envelopes change happens in small increments as thought needed, or as can be afforded to accomplish.
All the evolving envelope upgrades create huge impacts in the end result. Ending with a replacement heating plant of better efficiency that can no longer use the same flue configuration for venting that's worked for decades because it's exhaust temp is no longer hot enough to keep the flue from being damaged by excessive condensation.
These are changes not only to the heating plant, but to the rest of the structure over the course of years since its conception.
Usually with older envelopes change happens in small increments as thought needed, or as can be afforded to accomplish.
All the evolving envelope upgrades create huge impacts in the end result. Ending with a replacement heating plant of better efficiency that can no longer use the same flue configuration for venting that's worked for decades because it's exhaust temp is no longer hot enough to keep the flue from being damaged by excessive condensation.
Gordy
3
Re: Condensation Issues in Chimney with New Boiler
It's one of three things; (1) the ductwork; (2) the ductwork, or; (3) the ductwork.
Spence
1
Condensation Issues in Chimney with New Boiler
We just purchased a new home in CT. It had the original 1960 Arcoleader oil boiler in it that was eating 35 gallons of oil a month just for domestic hot water. We replaced it with a Buderus G115WS4 linked to a stainless steel crown indirect. Great system by the way, sips oil.
Our installer, who was great and very knowledgeable(licensed Buderus installer), warned us that with a 2 story brick chimney on top of the story of flue in the foundation wall, we would get condensation issues, and probably have to line the chimney with stainless steel, but he said wait and see what happens. Well lo and behold, the boiler finally ran hard all night for the first time this week and we have about a quart or so of water dumping out of the lower flue door every night now from condensation(it's not running back to the boiler, we have a flue access clean-out built into the 10 inch poured concrete foundation).
Our installer is on vacation until December 2nd, so until I can discuss it with him I'm interested in getting as much info as I can.
First of all, our chimney has a combined flue for our living room fireplace and the boiler. If we line it with a reduced size stainless steel flue to reduce condensation and eliminate condensation damage to the mortar, that pretty much means our fire place is DOA correct, or will they be able to set it up so we can still use the fire place? It's just a standard fire place, not a wood burning stove.
Secondly, the installer said that the Buderus' flue exhaust temperature is so low due to it's efficiency, that even with proper sizing and lining, you can't eliminate condensation completely with a 2 story chimney because there is so much cooling off that happens by the time it exits 3 stories above, and it never runs long enough to really heat the chimney up and burn off the condensation. In that case, what do people do to control the moisture? I don't fancy having a water logged towel by our flue every night for the rest of our lives, even if it isn't damaging the chimney anymore. I believe the G115WS4 can be switched to a direct vent set up without a power vent(maybe I'm wrong?), but it would be VERY difficult to meet code with the orientation of our house, and exterior items where the venting would need to be, and costly to modify the chimney this way.
Well, we knew this was probably coming, now it is just a question of making a decision.
Our installer, who was great and very knowledgeable(licensed Buderus installer), warned us that with a 2 story brick chimney on top of the story of flue in the foundation wall, we would get condensation issues, and probably have to line the chimney with stainless steel, but he said wait and see what happens. Well lo and behold, the boiler finally ran hard all night for the first time this week and we have about a quart or so of water dumping out of the lower flue door every night now from condensation(it's not running back to the boiler, we have a flue access clean-out built into the 10 inch poured concrete foundation).
Our installer is on vacation until December 2nd, so until I can discuss it with him I'm interested in getting as much info as I can.
First of all, our chimney has a combined flue for our living room fireplace and the boiler. If we line it with a reduced size stainless steel flue to reduce condensation and eliminate condensation damage to the mortar, that pretty much means our fire place is DOA correct, or will they be able to set it up so we can still use the fire place? It's just a standard fire place, not a wood burning stove.
Secondly, the installer said that the Buderus' flue exhaust temperature is so low due to it's efficiency, that even with proper sizing and lining, you can't eliminate condensation completely with a 2 story chimney because there is so much cooling off that happens by the time it exits 3 stories above, and it never runs long enough to really heat the chimney up and burn off the condensation. In that case, what do people do to control the moisture? I don't fancy having a water logged towel by our flue every night for the rest of our lives, even if it isn't damaging the chimney anymore. I believe the G115WS4 can be switched to a direct vent set up without a power vent(maybe I'm wrong?), but it would be VERY difficult to meet code with the orientation of our house, and exterior items where the venting would need to be, and costly to modify the chimney this way.
Well, we knew this was probably coming, now it is just a question of making a decision.
dziukap
1
Help with Weil-McLain CGa gas boiler?
Here's the manual for my boiler: https://www.weil-mclain.com/sites/default/files/field-file/CGa Series 3 Boiler Manual 0520.pdf
This boiler has been mostly fine since we moved in last year. Over the last couple weeks, we've occasionally been waking up to a cold house, with the lights on the control module flickering erratically (not like any error code from what I can tell). See YouTube video here for example:
https://youtu.be/W4E-Kigkn_M
The TSTAT/CIRC and LIMIT lights flicker on and off. Then they stay on as DAMPER and FLAME come on, but then TSTAT/CIRC and LIMIT flicker off again and everything turns off. Then the cycle repeats.
What I've been doing to resolve: I just turn the boiler off and step away for an hour. This is around 5am or so. Around 6am, I go back and switch the boiler on and it starts more or less working normally. I'll see the TSTAT/CIRC and LIMIT lights trip and turn off from time to time but it's an isolated incident during the daytime—it's only during the cold nights that it won't leave that cycle and create heat at all.
I've done the basic stuff suggested by my HVAC pro like cleaning the flame sensor and leaving the damper stuck open. Any suggestions?
This boiler has been mostly fine since we moved in last year. Over the last couple weeks, we've occasionally been waking up to a cold house, with the lights on the control module flickering erratically (not like any error code from what I can tell). See YouTube video here for example:
https://youtu.be/W4E-Kigkn_MThe TSTAT/CIRC and LIMIT lights flicker on and off. Then they stay on as DAMPER and FLAME come on, but then TSTAT/CIRC and LIMIT flicker off again and everything turns off. Then the cycle repeats.
What I've been doing to resolve: I just turn the boiler off and step away for an hour. This is around 5am or so. Around 6am, I go back and switch the boiler on and it starts more or less working normally. I'll see the TSTAT/CIRC and LIMIT lights trip and turn off from time to time but it's an isolated incident during the daytime—it's only during the cold nights that it won't leave that cycle and create heat at all.
I've done the basic stuff suggested by my HVAC pro like cleaning the flame sensor and leaving the damper stuck open. Any suggestions?
Jaaan
1