Help with Goodman GSXC16 Error code 04

3 years ago my son installed a new Goodman GSXC16024 that has been working fine for the first two summers, and the beginning of this summer. About 3 weeks ago there was no AC and he found error code 04 on the condensing unit PCB display. I wanted to look up the technical documents for this unit and I am unable to find the IO manual or Trouble shooting info online. Does anyone here (other than @pecmsg) have info that might help? Is there a technical bulletin on this particular issue?
Cycling the 220 vac off to the outdoor unit and the indoor unit will bring the system back to operation. It will operate for several days and the stop. Now it is becoming more frequent.
There was a discussion on this same issue in 2021 on HVACTechTalk, but I did not see any resolution on that thread.
I think that he may need to call goodman tech support when he is at the equipment in order to get the answers, but I seem to be his GoTo tech support person on all things automotive, Oil Heat and HVAC, so that is why I'm asking
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Goodman uses the CoreSense module.
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The dates are interesting and this unit may be much newer so it may be different than either of these documents posted.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
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Check easy things first. Electrical connections, capacitors, start components.
If those are all good, let the system cool off completely. Reset by cycling power. Measure the suction temp and discharge temp at the compressor, as well as the amp draw/voltage.
If the superheat across the compressor is high and amp draw low, you aren't moving enough refrigerant to cool the compressor and it will trip the common internal overload after a longer run time. That can come from low refrigerant, high head pressure ( dirty condenser, blockage or malfunctioning fan).
If the compressor superheat is low and the amp draw is high, that would mean it's pumping to much gas and overloading the motor to the point of tripping the internal overload. This scenario would be most common in a horizontal right airhandler application where the txv bulb is in the return Airstream and not properly insulated or loose from the pipe.
And lastly, it could be a bad compressor.
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Capacitance measured is 34.4 uf, capacitance rated is 35.0 uf. is that within 6% plus or minus.
Testing that possibility. first step is to re do all the wiring connections. Seems that all the failures happen around 3 PM when the setback ends and the system starts to recover. If redressing the wiring does not fix the problem, then removing the setback to see if that is the cause of the problem. I don't want to change too many things all at once. Then we won't know what one of the many fixes worked.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I've dealt with this a lot. In my experience the causes are either a dirty condenser coil or the system needs a good 5-2-1 hard start kit installed. Goodman and Amana units really need to have the hail guards removed to be able to clean the coil effectively. And if the system has TXV I would definitely check the superheat. 3/4 of them need some adjustment to set the superheat correctly.
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I'd probably put a soft starter on it instead of a hard start if it really has a power issue that keeps it from starting sometimes.
Does it have a time delay in the condenser? Is it possible something happens control wise trying to start it before it has equalized under some condition?
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Another thing to check is if the system has a positive shutoff TXV to prevent refrigerant migration during the off cycle. If it is designed that way and the txv is slowly leaking, you could have liquid migrating to the suction side of the compressor. That would overload it on startup. You need to measure the inrush current after a long off cycle to see if this is when the trips occur. If the inrush current is to high, look up the OEM start components listed by the manufacturer (Copeland) and install those.
You really need to get guages on this thing as well. Wait to long to get it fixed and there's a good chance you'll loose the compressor.
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How does that work? Isn't the txv going to go wide open trying to bring the superheat down when there is no supply of liquid refrigerant?
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No because the pressure on the suction side goes up. When pressure is equalized the txv is shut tight.
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I installed a Goodman Dsxc18 a few years ago that ran fine for two years and then started alarming out with I think the same locked rotor error
Voltage as far as I know was always fine and the system was running perfect. I had set the superheat when I installed it and it was still fine. Replaced the cap and it still happened randomly. From what I recall the solution was a hardstart and I think there's comments about certain compressors from 2022? being borderline.
It's been running fine with the hardstart for a year now.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Hard starts are fine-ish. As long as you compare the actual specs on the capacitor and relay to what the manufacture has designed for. That's all they are, a start cap and pot relay in 1 container. The ratings they give them, like 1-5 tons, ect. are garbage.
The compressors are not borderline. The HVAC manufacturer puts them in a borderline envirnment. The Copeland data sheet will tell you exactly what components to use dependant on application.
I recently had to replace a 3 ton compressor out of a York HP. It was an electrical burnout out. As I did my research to determine cause, I found the generic hardstart kit on it had over twice the capacitance allowed by copeland for that compressor. Unit was only like 5 yrs old.
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like i said earlier, i'd go with a soft starter rather than a herd start.
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Compressors have a high starting torque requirement. Also frequent cycling. Using a voltage limiting soft start on compressors is extremely risky and requires careful design. In most cases should be avoided altogether IMO.
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As was explained to me, apparently the larger the capacitor the more current it can pass but the less phase shift you get. A hard start just adds another capacitor to give the start winding more current. Apparently it needs to be pulled out because you end up with less phase shift so the motor runs worse. I guess it's a balancing act to get enough current with the right, or as close as you can to the right amount of phase shift.
It's not going to pull any more current starting than it wants just because you add capacitance regardless of it's name. It should probably be called an easy start, but I guess it's name comes from being used on motors that have a hard time starting.
This info was given to me by an engineer with a PhD in electrical engineering about 8 years ago, so I might remember slightly off.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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"In a capacitor, the current leads the voltage by 90 degrees. When an AC voltage is applied, the capacitor charges and discharges in response to the changing voltage. As the voltage rises, the capacitor begins to charge, allowing current to flow immediately. However, the voltage across the capacitor builds up more slowly, reaching its peak after the current has already started flowing. Conversely, when the voltage decreases, the capacitor discharges, pushing current out before the voltage drops fully. This creates a phase shift where the current waveform precedes the voltage waveform by a quarter cycle (90 degrees) in an ideal capacitor."
The angle of the phase shift is determined by the interaction of the winding resistance, capacitance, and hertz. This allows the start cap to dump current into the start winding until the voltage reaches the preset level on the start relay. The start relay then drops out the start cap and leaves the run cap in the circuit.
So if the the start cap is to large, it will dump more current than the start winding is rated for before the voltage reaches the required drop out level.
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