Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Best Of
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Hello Jamie,1905 and fairly high class -- it most likely was gravity hot water from the beginning, but those floor registers with heating units in them were all the rage in better houses. The trick to renovating them today is that some did have outside air brought in as well as return air, for better air quality, and that you do not want -- so that needs to be tracked down and sealed off. Usually pretty obvious. I have worked on two systems like that -- one gravity hot air and one gravity water.
I am wondering if they added the floor and wall vents
long after they put in the gravity hot water system to
let the heat in the basement just rise up into the home?
There is obviously a coil in that air duct and it may be
plugged with dust and dirt too.
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
The State of New York still has weatherization programs funding for them so now would be the time to contact a plumber willing to do a detailed heat loss study with infrared cameras and a blower door to find the leaks, measure the square footage area of the living spaces and windows, measure the cubic footage of each room including the attic if it has an attic and measure the basement for its cubic footage and measure all the windows.
leonz
1
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Well... in a high class home of that sort, the underfloor heating with grilles and return ducting feeding it was likely original, and is an excellent way of heating a space. What one does want to make sure is that any outside air connections are removed and sealed, but leave the interior return air ducting and encosures.
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Leonz, I would guess that the ductwork was part of the original gravity system. If it was gone there might be no heat for the ground floor.
JD, are there actually blower motors inside the ductwork?
You would hear something running if so. Look for wiring/conduit etc.
Some of these systems has a grill in the floor for cold air to drop down and then wall or floor grill for warm air to rise up thru. You may not feel much air moving.
And look outside for fresh cold air inlet that might come in thru the basement wall, it would be largish duct work.
One concern is if you have a blower (or even a good gravity flow IF it used to come from outside) sucking air out of the basement to blow upstairs you could potentially cause a downdraft in the flue/chimney piping and pull fumes/CO into the house.
As the basement is more sealed up, for air infiltration, this could become more of a concern.
$1280 for 9 people is $142.22 per the worst month.
That is cooking, clothes drying, hot water and heat......
It would be interesting to see more of the basement system, back up to show floor to ceiling of the heating system.
You could look in "Find a contractor" section of this wall.
JD, are there actually blower motors inside the ductwork?
You would hear something running if so. Look for wiring/conduit etc.
Some of these systems has a grill in the floor for cold air to drop down and then wall or floor grill for warm air to rise up thru. You may not feel much air moving.
And look outside for fresh cold air inlet that might come in thru the basement wall, it would be largish duct work.
One concern is if you have a blower (or even a good gravity flow IF it used to come from outside) sucking air out of the basement to blow upstairs you could potentially cause a downdraft in the flue/chimney piping and pull fumes/CO into the house.
As the basement is more sealed up, for air infiltration, this could become more of a concern.
$1280 for 9 people is $142.22 per the worst month.
That is cooking, clothes drying, hot water and heat......
It would be interesting to see more of the basement system, back up to show floor to ceiling of the heating system.
You could look in "Find a contractor" section of this wall.
JUGHNE
1
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
I would have an estimate of how much it would cost to weatherize the home first and then fix the heating system by removing the ducting and re install the correct plumbed gravity hot water system as it was originally designed to be with the open to air expansion tank in the attic or the top of the riser pipe on the 3rd floor if there is no attic.
We or at least I have no idea where the point of no pressure change is with that circulator as you have 3 bladder tanks in the basement connected to who knows what or where and your landlord need the help from a plumber with experience in gravity hot water heating or a steam licensed plumber that understands gravity hot water systems.
They only made it worse when installing that mess as a top fed or bottom fed gravity hot water heating system will always deliver slow even heat.
Weatherizing the home and fixing the mess there by ripping out the ducting sealing the home and fixing the gravity hot water system to work as it was intended is what I would do as whoever installed that mess did her no favors in my opinion as it could have been maintained correctly with the gravity heating system.
My thoughts anyway.
We or at least I have no idea where the point of no pressure change is with that circulator as you have 3 bladder tanks in the basement connected to who knows what or where and your landlord need the help from a plumber with experience in gravity hot water heating or a steam licensed plumber that understands gravity hot water systems.
They only made it worse when installing that mess as a top fed or bottom fed gravity hot water heating system will always deliver slow even heat.
Weatherizing the home and fixing the mess there by ripping out the ducting sealing the home and fixing the gravity hot water system to work as it was intended is what I would do as whoever installed that mess did her no favors in my opinion as it could have been maintained correctly with the gravity heating system.
My thoughts anyway.
leonz
1
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Air sealing is your friend here. If the system is working I wouldn't replace it unless the house is tightened up first. Right now it is taking X amount of BTU's to heat the house, that won't change with a new system. So to reduce fuel usage you have to reduce load. Air sealing, insulation, etc. Once that's done you should see reductions, how much is a different question.
Also, it's 5400 sq ft, it's going to cost a lot of money to heat that monster. Running those numbers against my own 1500 sq ft house with 5 people, 1280 doesn't seem that outrageous to me given the age and size of the house. Tighten it up some and you should reduce that, how much is another question.
Also, it's 5400 sq ft, it's going to cost a lot of money to heat that monster. Running those numbers against my own 1500 sq ft house with 5 people, 1280 doesn't seem that outrageous to me given the age and size of the house. Tighten it up some and you should reduce that, how much is another question.
KC_Jones
4
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Lowering the fuel cost will require permanent weather proofing (air sealing), the correct size boiler, if the existing isn't correct, and shorter showers for some of you. Assuming the landlord would need to cover those costs so I don't know how far you'd get with that.
As far as the first floor is concerned, where is the thermostat? There's only one serving all 3 floors?
You say minimal air flow but you don't necessarily need velocity with heating air. If it's not enough to satisfy the thermostat (if it's on the first floor), there are things to check. I'm sure you've checked the air filter.
The coil could be plugged up as well. Is it the correct size coil? What type of motor in the air handler, belt or direct drive? If belt drive is it the correct belt? Belt tension adjusted to amp draw? Fan blades dont have 70 years of crud buildup?
As far as the first floor is concerned, where is the thermostat? There's only one serving all 3 floors?
You say minimal air flow but you don't necessarily need velocity with heating air. If it's not enough to satisfy the thermostat (if it's on the first floor), there are things to check. I'm sure you've checked the air filter.
The coil could be plugged up as well. Is it the correct size coil? What type of motor in the air handler, belt or direct drive? If belt drive is it the correct belt? Belt tension adjusted to amp draw? Fan blades dont have 70 years of crud buildup?
HVACNUT
1
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
The circulator could have been replaced with a modern wet rotor or ecm circulator, you didn't have to track down a 3 piece circulator.
Have those indirect radiators been converted to use indoor air? They usually were designed to pull air from outside which was very inefficient. Make sure that has been sealed up and some sort of way to pull return air from the inside was added. They work by gravity, there is no forced air circulation.
The system is original to the house. The boiler looks to have been replaced in the 50's or 60's. It was originally a gravity hot water system, the circulator was added with the new boiler.
Not knowing your energy costs, that being a very large house I suspect your efficiency of the system isn't terrible, i would look more at fixing the comfort problems first. A new boiler would be a bit more efficient but it won't be a dramatic change. The way to save on heating costs would be to add air sealing and insulation to the building.
Have those indirect radiators been converted to use indoor air? They usually were designed to pull air from outside which was very inefficient. Make sure that has been sealed up and some sort of way to pull return air from the inside was added. They work by gravity, there is no forced air circulation.
The system is original to the house. The boiler looks to have been replaced in the 50's or 60's. It was originally a gravity hot water system, the circulator was added with the new boiler.
Not knowing your energy costs, that being a very large house I suspect your efficiency of the system isn't terrible, i would look more at fixing the comfort problems first. A new boiler would be a bit more efficient but it won't be a dramatic change. The way to save on heating costs would be to add air sealing and insulation to the building.
mattmia2
3
Re: DEAD WRONG
Merchant couplings AKA thread protectors.....I have seen and have used on low pressure gas and steam piping.
Never did buy any as they were "free" on each length of pipe.
So now I mostly use the "proper" couplings.
The Merchant ones are not tapered inside. You easily verify this by laying a straight edge, such as a wood pencil, inside on the threads. Flat and level line.
The seal is made by the taper of the male pipe end, this allows you to run the pipe farther into the coupling with the same results.
There is a popular steamer Utuber who utilizes this feature to shorten or lengthen a short pipe made up of 2 nipples. If it was a problem for him, I doubt if it would be shown.
Our lumber yard, which threads pipe for the rural people, sells the Merchant couplings they gain from pipe lengths, to be used for water lines. Haven't heard of problems.
Never did buy any as they were "free" on each length of pipe.
So now I mostly use the "proper" couplings.
The Merchant ones are not tapered inside. You easily verify this by laying a straight edge, such as a wood pencil, inside on the threads. Flat and level line.
The seal is made by the taper of the male pipe end, this allows you to run the pipe farther into the coupling with the same results.
There is a popular steamer Utuber who utilizes this feature to shorten or lengthen a short pipe made up of 2 nipples. If it was a problem for him, I doubt if it would be shown.
Our lumber yard, which threads pipe for the rural people, sells the Merchant couplings they gain from pipe lengths, to be used for water lines. Haven't heard of problems.
JUGHNE
1