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Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
6 and 1/2 dozen of the other. Traditional circs have weaker magnets in them then the powerful ECM circs, therefore they attract less iron particles. The ECM has a higher starting torque, therefore won't get stopped by the particles as quickly.Out of curiosity why are ECM circulators more prone to failure due to iron oxide than traditional circulators?I don't think anyone has made that statement… the question was posed whether its the case.
However I'd wager "traditional" circulators are more robust to contaminants, like old CI boilers vs. Mod Cons.
The most common place that I see circs seized up is on those open, outdoor type wood boiler systems. On one such system, I have both the Alpha and the Bumblebee installed. The Alpha has seized up, the Bumblebee has not yet seized up. The Bumblebee has 2 things going for it to help address this issue. They have a screen to try to keep the particles out of the rotor and they also go to full power at startup for a brief period of time. I would contend that those features are helping.
In the meantime I keep trying to sell water quality treatments as an alternative to emergency no heat calls. Some people buy it, some don't.
I really have no idea of the PPM of iron in these systems. I'm going to start checking though because I'm curious as well.
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Out of curiosity why are ECM circulators more prone to failure due to iron oxide than traditional circulators?I don't think anyone has made that statement… the question was posed whether its the case.
However I'd wager "traditional" circulators are more robust to contaminants, like old CI boilers vs. Mod Cons.
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
I do think water quality is going to be a concern w/ the new modcon boilers vs. the older CI blocks.
here is an opinion from the UK....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhiAgjLYn2M
here is an opinion from the UK....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhiAgjLYn2M
kcopp
5
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Wouldn't you want to also use Sentinel as a cleaner and an inhibiter?
Snowmelt
5
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Good questions, I'd look to then folks in the UK the issue started showing up there first due to all their open systems. A lot of the magnetic separation products were developed there, Fernox, etc.
We have a growing collections of pics sent to us of failed, or rotation error ECMs. Here is one of two from our own shop that started seizing and showing rotation errors on the display. Took it apart myself..
We also get pics from installers of the magnetic particles that the mag separators "suck" out of the systems, it is a real concern.
The symptom is easily addressed with magnetic separators, probably see a bunch more at AHR.
My bigger concern is WHY so much ferrite in supposedly tight systems. It took ECM to bring the issue "out of the closet" But it doesn't take a lot, really to jam a circ, maybe a 1/2 teaspoon on this one pictured.
Our shop is all alu pex, copper steel and stainless boilers??
We have a growing collections of pics sent to us of failed, or rotation error ECMs. Here is one of two from our own shop that started seizing and showing rotation errors on the display. Took it apart myself..
We also get pics from installers of the magnetic particles that the mag separators "suck" out of the systems, it is a real concern.
The symptom is easily addressed with magnetic separators, probably see a bunch more at AHR.
My bigger concern is WHY so much ferrite in supposedly tight systems. It took ECM to bring the issue "out of the closet" But it doesn't take a lot, really to jam a circ, maybe a 1/2 teaspoon on this one pictured.
Our shop is all alu pex, copper steel and stainless boilers??
hot_rod
5
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
I have never had an ECM of any brand fail for any reason, I think this whole water quality thing is much ado about nothingI hope you are right Robert.... Time will tell. I just had 1 SS boiler that I not service that may very well have been due to water issues...specifically iron. Looking at the UK they are having issues there w/ there market.
kcopp
5
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Excellent idea. We install good sized magnets in all the 'wide spots in the road' on all our heavy equipment hydraulics, transmissions, and engine oil coolers, along with secondary filter systems.
That's something I'll have to look into for my repipe. I'm not too keen on any sort of filter, but a nice magnet secured in the piping to the boiler...that I could do.
That's something I'll have to look into for my repipe. I'm not too keen on any sort of filter, but a nice magnet secured in the piping to the boiler...that I could do.
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
I don't claim to know much about this but I did see two new (grundfos) pumps fail on the same job. We ended up installing a fine bag filter on the job. Someone told me later that you can install a device with a magnet in the pipeline to catch the magnet particles.
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Ever since installing my BumbleBee I've been curious about this. I wouldn't be surprised to find that I have a higher than 'normal' amount in my system. I'll be curious to see how things look when I repipe some things in the spring.
Re: One simple way to improve efficiency by 20%
The best thing you can do.......When you remove the furnace filter, don't stop, remove all that crap, and put a hydronic heating system in.
Paul48
8