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Re: Calling Peerless 63-series Owners: A Venting Mystery
@ethicalpaul wrote "We agree on much, but I don't think I've seen radiator runouts vented by a #4 get much if any steam before a well-vented main."
Paul and I had been going back and forth about this since he wrote "a #4 is not too fast , ever" at the bottom of page 4 of my DIY-boiler-install thread.
I disagreed with this sentiment because I observed MoM-#4-vented radiators start to get hot before the main was completely filled. I have a single main that is a square loop, 20 ft to a side, with fourteen risers branching off, twelve of them active.
The first riser goes to a large radiator on the south side of the living room — where the thermostat lives — and the last riser goes to the living room's north side, with eighty feet of main between them. The earlier observation was that several sections of the south radiator were hot before the north radiator saw steam. Since that one is vented with a #5, it fills quickly and warms the room, eventually ending the call for heat.
Some months back, I had done a simple experiment by maximizing the venting of my main, removing one of my two vents, leaving behind a 1" hole — and I found that the main filled a little quicker, like in 8 minutes instead of 9. No big deal, right? What I didn't do in that test is go around the house checking radiators.
So last night I repeated the exercise, but more carefully.
Once again I removed the MoM main vent, leaving behind a threaded one-inch opening.
I started the call for heat and set a stop watch when the flame came on.
04:54 Steam develops
05:34 The elbow at the start of the main is hot to the touch.
Now I knew I had a few minutes before the main would fill completely. I put my hand over the one inch hole and felt the air pulsating out. A LOT of air.
I opened the valve to my low-pressure gauge and read a fairly stable 5 inches of water column.
[07:55 Cyclegard does its thing]
[09:05 Cyclegrad is finished, burners resumes]
12:32 Seven minutes after the FIRST elbow of the main is heated, the LAST elbow is hot to the touch. At this point, all risers see steam.
12:55 The main vent antler gets hot. At this point, I shut the boiler off, which I had not done in earlier tests.
I went around the house and checked the radiators.
All of them were cold, and so were their riser pipes coming up out of the floor.
I reinstalled the main vent and resumed the call for heat. The living-room south and north radiators heated pretty much in unison. Was Paul right after all? How awkward…
This morning, I repeated the exercise with the main vents in place.
The observed pressure was unchanged, at 5 inches water column.
Once again, as soon as the antler got hot, I cut the power to the boiler and checked my radiators.
They were all cold.
BUT: the steam risers were hot, and steam was just starting to enter the radiators. As soon as the main vents were closed, there was lots of steam available and radiators started heating quickly. The upstairs radiators, which have 20 to 30-ft risers, were well behind, of course.
What did I learn from this exercise?
(i) My main is vented well. I can speed it up a little by playing tricks, but there's no need to add more vents.
(ii) The #4-vented radiators are so slow that they 'steal' only enough steam to heat the risers. Once the main is hot, the radiators farther downstream do a good job catching up. The system is pretty well balanced.
(iii) Once the main is full, there is a LOT of steam available, and the first-in-line radiators heat up quickly. That is what caused me to believe the #4 vents were still too big.
(iv) The main obstacle to even heating throughout the house are the long 1-1/4 inch risers to the upstairs… which is why our bedroom radiator, which is the second-to-last riser off the main, also has a #5 vent on it. It is fairly small, and quickly heats all the way across.
So that's what I did on my summer vacation, submitted here for your edification and reading pleasure.
cheers -matt

Re: When to NOT use sharkbite? A question
We love you Paul, and most of all we love the glass piping.
Nobody else would have ever done that. Incredibly fascinating.
Re: When to NOT use sharkbite? A question
Hi @RascalOrnery , It was in another thread, but I have seen a Sharkbite fail, and it caused roughly $10,000 in damage some years ago. I think they are good for temporary repairs, particularly if the line cannot readily be made dry. I don't know of any rubber that we can expect to last as long as copper. I want things I build to far outlast me. 😇
Yours, Larry
Re: When to NOT use sharkbite? A question
Yeah, if in the unlikely situation that you had to go before a judge. the opposing lawyer would as if you used the bets material you could use.
Solder is backed by almost 100 years of field use
Prepress has been around for less time but still has a track record. both here and in Europe.
Shark Bite?????
Re: Wrestit wrench
no, but i have a guillotine type pipe vise I bought off ebay for like $30 that i've been meaning to bolt to a couple foot long piece of 2x.

Re: Calling Peerless 63-series Owners: A Venting Mystery
So now I'm not only having trouble procuring a mystery part, I'm also not having any luck finding the three-burner bracket I need to support the burner tubes on the far end of the gas manifold. There are none in stock, even at the factory.
When I gently pointed out that they need to be made for the 63-03L model, I was told that Peerless was moving to the '63x' model — which I think™ is the Burnham clone I've read about on the forum recently.
I just hope I'm right in thinking I've got a lifetime supply of Peerless boiler in my basement right now…
As far as the bracket, I might be able to work something up using vent pipe and tin snips. If that looks iffy, I'll just leave everything as is.

Re: When to NOT use sharkbite? A question
What happens if the earth stops spinning tomorrow?

Re: When to NOT use sharkbite? A question
Jamie, I too work in Historic homes (some 250 yrs plus) for 40 years now. Never burned a house down or even got close. I use qaulity Torches & Tips (Turbotorch) . I have tiny tips to huge. I also have a steady hand and a big bucket of water next to me. Never an issue. What did all these Deadmen & Old Time plumbers do without Propress & Sharkbites?
Jamie..they make non asbestos pipe torch shields for "impossible" spots. They work. Mad Dog
Re: When to NOT use sharkbite? A question
I have 3/4" Sharkbites on either side of my whole house water filter and they feel the abusive torque when I spin the filter housing off and on monthly since 2019. They still hold water. The reason I use shark bites here is if the filter housing starts leaking, all I have to do it remove it and install a piece of precut copper to keep the water flowing while I look for a new housing.
Propress is nice because at work, I don't have to fulfill the requirements of a burn permit. And, as we found out, damn nice to have when you find a 3" tee brazed during construction leaking and a valve 50 ft away that wont hold water. We still got wet but we replaced the tee and no longer had a leak. Can't do that with a torch and my freezer only goes up to 2".
99% off my home is sweated copper but if I make changes, I'll use a propress to eliminate the risk of a fire.
