Best Of
Re: Packing Heat
Hearing all this solar thermal lore from you guys has made me realize that, ROI aside, it just seems so much more fun than loading up on PV and calling it a day.

Re: Indirect DHW Question
Triangle Tube has their SMART line of indirect tanks. Personally, I’m not fond of them as I’ve had to replace a few that have leaked; one, last month.
I prefer Viessmann stainless steel indirects.
Re: Frequent Boiler Interruption
Well… the first thing to do is to figure out what is shutting the boiler down. It might be low water. It might be high pressure. It might be a wonky connection somewhere. It might be a combustion or fuel delivery problem to the burner. Until you figure out what the actual problem is, you don't have much hope of fixing it.
It's unlikely to be a rash of bad traps. First off, they usually fail open — they'd have to fail closed to trap condensate. So honestly that's about the last place I'd look for a problem.
So figure out what is shutting off the boiler…
Like, for starters, what are you doing to "reset" the boiler manually? Which button do you push?
Re: Heating recommendation for Jackson, WY
Radiant ceilings are , IMO , more comfortable than floors in newer , well insulated homes . I design and install many in New Jersey and everyone is happy with them . Can be less expensive to install also .
Re: Cast iron radiator output tables are wrong?
I agree that determining the rate of temp rise is crucial, and it's possible I didn't monitor the temp long enough to determine that the rise rate was in fact zero. That 80-minute run was the longest I'd ever observed, and although I thought I'd stood there long enough with the IR gun to confirm zero temp rise for at least a few minutes, that may not have been accurate enough.
The boiler didn't run long enough this morning to get past 145 degree supply temp, so I'll have to wait for colder weather to return in order to get a longer run again.
Meanwhile, I did monitor the supply temp this morning during a 60-minute run. Unfortunately I missed the last 15 minutes of it. But I did collect data manually for 25 minutes, taking one temperature reading per minute. Readings were take from the 1-1/4" copper supply outlet at the boiler, with a handheld IR thermometer aimed at black vinyl electrical tape around the copper. See chart below in the pdf attachment.
The data is somewhat noisy, probably due to turbulent flow at the boiler supply exit. But a linear regression "best fit" done in a Google Sheets chart shows an R-squared of 0.997 for a straight line through the data points, which means the temperature rise is extremely linear and almost perfectly described by a straight line through the data points. This was surprising to me, as I expected it to be more of a curve, bending over as the temperature rose.
The slope of the "best fit" line is 0.80 degrees/minute. So if our 1845 BTU/deg F heat capacity is correct, that implies the cast iron and water are absorbing 0.8 x 1845 = 1476 BTU/min, or 88,560 BTU/hr.
Then from a net output of 124,000 BTU/hr, that leaves 35,440 BTU/hr being radiated. And dividing by a radiator plus pipe area of 554 sq ft gives us an implied radiation of 64 BTU/hr/sq ft.
So let's check the cast iron radiator BTU table. During the above run, I took one surface temp reading about halfway through the run, at the midpoint of a radiator that I expected would represent a system average, being neither the farthest nor the closest rad to the boiler. That surface temp was 124 degrees (which was right about the average water temp at that point, with the supply temp being 135 and the return being 115).
And the radiator BTU table says that, at 124 degrees, a cast iron radiator will output about 60 BTU/hr/sq ft. Which is quite close to our implied output calculation of 64 BTU/hr/sq ft above. So the cast iron radiator BTU chart is correct, and my mistake was in starting from a flawed premise of thermal equilibrium.
So the numbers all fit surprisingly well. The thermal mass is absorbing about 70% of the BTU's, and the surface area is emitting about 30% of the BTU's.
And I think you're right that my mistake was in believing the water temp had stopped rising at 160 F supply, because I didn't monitor long enough. The straight line fit to the temperature rise in this morning's data was a surprise to me, because I had expected more of a flattening of the curve as the temp rises, due to the non-linearity of radiative heat loss. But evidently the rate of change is highly linear.
@EdTheHeaterMan will not be surprised to find that I was wrong again, and that the linearity of the temperature rise means the boiler probably would have hit the high limit eventually, though it would have taken several hours before China Syndrome. 😀 That's good. I learn more from being wrong than being right!
Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply!

Funny but not so funny
I don't know why this popped into my head today.
Sold my house 4 years ago. When I bought it in 86' and we moved it I noticed if I got up at night or if the house was really really quiet and you went into the bathroom or stood by the kitchen sink you would here a faint humming noise. Only noticed this at night.
It would sound like you held one of those Conch shells up to your ears.
Fast forward a couple of years the water pressure which was never great seemed worse. I had a friend who worked for the water dept in town and I had wired his new house. I talked with him and he said " the water pressure where you are isn't the best but we don't get complaints around there, we will come over and check it out could be the meter or sometimes the valve coming off the main get corroded". So they put a new meter in and shut the water off. Hooked up a hydraulic hand pump to the water line and with the main turned back on pumped something like a piece of cardboard back into the main to break off any corrosion. After that the water pressure improved a little.
Fast forward 10 years and during the winter the road in front of my house was buckling up a little. The town came out and fixed it.
Now its 12 years later and I am packing up to go on vacation for 2 weeks. The last thing is to cut the grass. I am down by the road cutting and the grass is soaked. This is in 90 degree July.
So I figured my water line was leaking even though we still had water in the house.
So I had that dug up and fixed what a mess, mud all over the yard.
Turns out the house had a septic tank which I knew.
When the house was switched over to sewer they hit the water line, so it leaked. For 12 years or more the water went into the old septic leach fields unnoticed
Except for the faint humming noise in the house which was caused by the leak and it was only herd at night when the water pressure was higher, and no houses were using water.
At some point the septic system had enough and the water got under the street and buckled that.
😊😊🤔🤔
Re: Experience I had with a boiler tech and what I learned along the way.
I'm not directing this at the original poster, but combustion regulation requires far more than a computer combustion analyzer.
There's a huge learning curve that goes into adjusting combustion and understanding the particulars. Working on combustion in small boilers is a rather obscure specialty. Finding material on the topic that is the proper blend of theory and mechanics can be difficult. Unfortunately we've recently lost a great training resource in the field.
When you buy that combustion analyzer, search beyond the little leaflet that comes in the package.
The computerized analyzers may have made the job a little too easy.
Re: ? actual difference between hot water heaters from supplyhouses and big box stores
I’ve had customers do that. There told call someone else. You can’t afford me!

Re: Cast iron radiator output tables are wrong?
It seems like a lot of people have a problem with others trying to understand what is going on around them and how things work.
I don't understand why that is. Learning is important as is understanding how things work and why we do what we do.

Re: Proposed Piping Layout
the series primary loops with multiple temperature requirements didn’t always work out. They were dependent on the first and second loops running, or the third recievied 180f when it needed a radiant load of 120. So mixing valves needed to be added to assure the lower temperature loads actually hot mixed, lower temperature. It provided hydraulic find, temperature mixing…not necessarily.
P/S doesn’t assure boiler protection either.
if your system doesn’t need two temperature supply, temperature at least 20 degrees from one another, here are two options
The first is a horseshoe parallel P/S, both zones getting the same temperature. Separate air , dirt and magnetic separators
The second is with a 4 in 1 hydro separator, both zones getting the same SWT
