Best Of
Re: Packing Heat
Hi All, I'm probably about to sound silly, but please bear with me. My experience is the most cost effective things you can do to make any heating/cooling system perform is to have a superior shell, so the loads remain small. It's hard, but possible to reduce the loads by 80% with good design, air sealing and insulation. Yup, 80%! If you could get anywhere near that number, any flavor of solar works and is easier to accomplish.
My climate is predominantly heating, but by reducing South and West facing glass, and thinking about low-E glass appropriate for each orientation, I've minimized the problem of overheating. A reason I like to use water as my thermal mass is it can be moved around, but importantly, I don't want to live inside of a solar collector with its temperature swings. I live in a low-mass house.
I have played with a variation of solar cooling, but never completed it because the house works without. The cooling was to have unglazed solar collectors placed higher than a well-insulated storage tank, and filled with an antifreeze mixture. The tank is placed just above the living space and tied into finned tube baseboard elements. Both fluid flows are driven by convection. Thermostatic control for the finned elements is given by a wax filled piston operator, driving a ball valve. It's the same system I use for controlling a gravity driven heating system that I did build, and it works. During the day, the collectors get sorta hot, but do nothing. On a clear night, they radiate heat and convection moves the resulting coolth into the tank.
I got ridiculed when I started to build my place 25 years ago because I used SIP panels, which people didn't seem to understand, and because I used 8" walls, 10" floors, and 12" roof. They told me I was nuts to be that well insulated. I was building for the life of the structure, not current energy prices. Anyway, it doesn't seem so crazy now, and my energy use per square foot is 10% of normal. Hope some of the above is useful.
Yours, Larry
Re: ? actual difference between hot water heaters from supplyhouses and big box stores
Having been to a number of WH tank manufacturers over the years, I have never seen different tanks being made for residential sized DHW tanks. I agree features, insulation, etc, and the warranty is where you may see differences.
I think tanks have been engineered down to a 5-7 year life expectancy.
We had a nice solar indirect built years ago. Heavier gauge tank and heads, thicker glass coating, 2'' injected foam, 1-1/2" coils, even a thicker metal outer jacket with powder coating. But the market just didn't see the extra $$ value.
hot_rod
Re: ? actual difference between hot water heaters from supplyhouses and big box stores
The label!
On ocassion I have found a handful of different labels in the bottom of the box. Assembly must have been confused as to which brand they were supposed to be packaging that day.
The tanks with longer warranties are the same as the 5 or 7 year. They are just playing the insurance game with the extra $$.
Some brands and models still use brass drain valves, upsell models may have two anode rods, nicer nipples for connection.
hot_rod
Re: Seeking your thoughts regarding a boiler/system upgrade for a small 1980s ranch.
Zoning the system seems like it could potentially increase the comfort of the place
The only way it increases the comfort is if the installed radiation is wildly in error as compared to the heatloss of the individual space. This is highly unlikely.
I'll tell you a story of one of my houses where, at a younger age, I decided to separate the single thermostat and zone on the first floor in a 100 year old Dutch Colonial (1900 square feet) into NINE Zones. It was not as difficult as it sounds as all the rooms had the 3/4" piping extend directly to the basement so putting nine zone valves down there together with 1" copper for the mains was not a massive effort. All the asbestos clad 2" iron came out and the 1" copper was installed over the course of about two years when I had the time. Did one half the building at a time.
The interesting thing about this story is that NONE of the zones on a given floor could be controlled greater than about 6°F. The energy from the highest zone would migrate over to the lower zones to the point where the lower zones would never call. The only way to increase the 6°F was to keep all the doors closed at all times………..which is possible in a 100 year old Dutch Colonial (because they all had doors)……………likely impossible in newer more open buildings.
I will say that the project eliminated the excessive overtemperature on the second floor. This was clearly a benefit because the house only had one zone previously.
So, your thoughts about increasing comfort with zoning is an exercise in futility on a building with one floor with a reasonably high expense if a contractor has to do it.
If you have a room that you wish to reduce the output, just close the damper on the baseboard…………….or put some wood beneath the baseboard to reduce airflow through it………………costs you NOTHING.
Regarding a new boiler:
You are wise to consider NOTHING. If the boiler is not leaking water……………do NOT replace it. It may be fine for another 20 years.
I bought a rental house in 1986 with a Utica OBT. The boiler had to be at least 20 years old at that point. I sold that house last year and the OBT was still operating perfectly fine………….together with it's tankless coil which I NEVER replaced in 38 years. It has a 275 outdoor tank running 2 pipe with a top feed with insulated lines to and from the tank into the building. I did replace the tank once…………with another used tank. When I sold it, I promised the new owner a new Honeywell 7224 control (since the L8124 was 30 years old). Put that in for him in about one hour.
LRCCBJ
Re: New vaporstat
very odd. I'd be inclined — this summer! — to take it off the radiator and the pipe, and see if the internal valve is connected to the handle. Or if you're a little braver, leave it on and unscrew the mechanism from the valve body (the big hex nut under the punched plate). Be gentle. Take pictures. Use a very high quality box wrench if possible — don't even think of using a pipe wrench. You may need a backup wrench on the valve body.
Re: Near boiler piping
I did eventually get it working. It's cutting out at about 4 oz and back in at about 1 oz.
KJB
Re: Air in boiler feed water
Given your slightly unusual situation… I'm not sure there is a good way to completely avoid the problem.
However, one thing you can do to at least reduce the nuisance is to make sure that your pressure reducing valve is set correctly and located properly and, if not, close the feed to the boiler and leave it closed — assuming that you have no leaks in the system causing it to lose pressure.
So.
The second approach is the better or the two, and therefore what I suggest is that you close the feed to the boiler — and leave it closed while you observe it for a day or two. It should hold pressure (if it doesn't, you have a leak on the heating side — which is another and different problem which will need attention). If this works, there's no reason to open that valve again until you are done with the work which requires shutting the water off.
However let us consider the piping and valve arrangement. The pressure reducing valve — autofill — should be as close as possible to the expansion tank, and both of them should be on the inlet side of the main circulating pump. The pressure reducing valve should be set to the same pressure as the empty precharge pressure in the expansion tank. If this is so, then there should be no water feed to the system — again, unless there is a leak…
Re: Seeking your thoughts regarding a boiler/system upgrade for a small 1980s ranch.
Yes, but I've already looked at the 49 that rank above this;)
Re: Wirsbo return manifold leak
Thank you all so much - this all already quite helpful. I will report back once my daughter goes to nap ( complicating this whole mess is a energized 15 month old who doesn't understand why dad is sleepy and distracted).
Much appreciated
Re: The "equalizer" is mis-named. It does nothing to equalize anything.
Just taking a guess over here. There are probably systems where there is not much of a pressure drop between the boiler and the end of the main. Well piped, smaller system, with nice clean water in the boiler... Probably not much of a pressure drop. But take a larger boiler, that might be running at higher pressure than it really should, with a very long main, that might be undersized, with wet Steam which contributes to pressure drops, and there might be a significant pressure difference between the boiler and the far end of the main. Which would certainly lead to water being pushed out of the boiler. To accommodate all systems and scenarios, the A dimension probably became the industry standard. Just a guess
