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Re: Need help with Burnham 405 1979 boiler
Print out the manuals for the boiler and LWCO and have them on hand for whomever somes to work on that boiler.
Bob
Bob
BobC
1
Re: Adding Outdoor Wood Boiler as backup to Existing LP Combi
It has to do with a term called vapor pressure. in simple terms it is the pressure that needs to be present on a fluid surface to keep it from boiling.
It is very temperature dependent. So the higher the fluid temperature the higher the pressure required on it's surface to prevent it from boiling.
When you talk vapor pressure it is usually in absolute terms, PSIA. So at sea level the absolute pressure is 14.7psia. Gauges are built to read 0 (gauge pressure, psi) at sea level.
At sea level water boils at 212°F.
In Leadville, CO, water boils around 194°F. As you heat water at that altitude vapor pressure rises until equals the reduced atmospheric pressure at 10,000 feet elevation.
This can have consequences for open OWF systems also. This example attached below was ahead scratcher for me when Siggy first presented it in Idronics. Water boiling in the upper level fin tube, basically.
I imagine this would drive a troubleshooter crazy until they understood the relationship of all the conditions, temperature, vapor pressure and pump differential.
Lots of things working against you with open OWF devices. Heat loss from the tank. Ran an example today for a 36" diameter tank 75" long with 3" of foam R-12 all around, and both ends the loss from a tank at 50° located outside at 0° is 322 BTU/hr.
With an OWF you don't have much if any front or rear insulation, and a hole in the top belching BTU out. So knowing that you can get a good idea how much "fuel" would be required to keep the tank from freezing. Plus the in-ground piping loss. Plus the cost to run a 200W circ.
Then the mis-applied circulators with little to no NPSH. Idronics 16 explains NPSH best.
The wood to heat conversion of maybe 40- 45% on a good day. 8, 10, 12 cords of wood or more a year??
Almost enough to make you want to put that OWF and "free" firewood money towards an more efficient shell, with 120°, or lower, distribution temperature heat emitters and a 90% + appliance. Or a 3 COP heat pump
It is very temperature dependent. So the higher the fluid temperature the higher the pressure required on it's surface to prevent it from boiling.
When you talk vapor pressure it is usually in absolute terms, PSIA. So at sea level the absolute pressure is 14.7psia. Gauges are built to read 0 (gauge pressure, psi) at sea level.
At sea level water boils at 212°F.
In Leadville, CO, water boils around 194°F. As you heat water at that altitude vapor pressure rises until equals the reduced atmospheric pressure at 10,000 feet elevation.
This can have consequences for open OWF systems also. This example attached below was ahead scratcher for me when Siggy first presented it in Idronics. Water boiling in the upper level fin tube, basically.
I imagine this would drive a troubleshooter crazy until they understood the relationship of all the conditions, temperature, vapor pressure and pump differential.
Lots of things working against you with open OWF devices. Heat loss from the tank. Ran an example today for a 36" diameter tank 75" long with 3" of foam R-12 all around, and both ends the loss from a tank at 50° located outside at 0° is 322 BTU/hr.
With an OWF you don't have much if any front or rear insulation, and a hole in the top belching BTU out. So knowing that you can get a good idea how much "fuel" would be required to keep the tank from freezing. Plus the in-ground piping loss. Plus the cost to run a 200W circ.
Then the mis-applied circulators with little to no NPSH. Idronics 16 explains NPSH best.
The wood to heat conversion of maybe 40- 45% on a good day. 8, 10, 12 cords of wood or more a year??
Almost enough to make you want to put that OWF and "free" firewood money towards an more efficient shell, with 120°, or lower, distribution temperature heat emitters and a 90% + appliance. Or a 3 COP heat pump
hot_rod
1
Re: Should there be a liner in an old American Standard Arcoliner Boiler (maybe 1940s - 1950s)?
Also, it would help to baffle the flue passages to slow down the hot flue gases so they give off more heat to the cast-iron.Is the red piece of metal above the fiber board here in this photo considered a baffle or is there something different that needs to be installed?
j0hns
0
Re: Minnesota Right to Repair Law
Agriculture has definitely been a driving force behind this. Deere actually signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the American Farm Bureau Federation agreeing to open up their systems and make software available to 3rd party repair shops and vendors. We'll see if it happens, but there's probably a lot more at play here than meets the eye.
For the last 10 or 15 years, pretty much every piece of farm level equipment that Deere has sold has been equipped with an Agriculture Management System (AMS). More recently, the AMS systems have grown beyond simply keeping our GPS headings, planted varieties, yield etc. - and now manage and control every function of the machine. Every machine is also equipped with a modem that uploads all machine data to Deere. It's awesome in some ways. I can watch everything I own on Deere's Operations Center App. I can share my GPS Headings, machine locations - almost anything with other farmers. Tech support (from Deere) can watch my in cab display remotely and diagnose problems. Like I said, it's awesome in some ways.
Deere equipment that was stolen by the Russians during the Ukraine invasion was remotely shut down by Deere. They claimed they'd never used that function before, but it obviously exists. There's no way to shut the AMS system down or operate the machine without it in newer equipment. And everything - every function, every operator interaction, every piece of information - is uploaded. The data about every farming operation that uses the equipment is on Deere's servers. I'm not that bothered by the whole thing, however, during farmer conversations (usually a few beers in), it's been brought up that it seems very likely that during harvest, someone could aggregate all of our yield data fairly easily. I'd assume that information might be quite valuable to commodities traders, the government, etc.
I'm generally pretty conservative about what information is out there about me and my farm, but I'm not that worked up about all this. I've never thought Deere has abused the information that they gather from my equipment. At this point, no one, other than a Deere Dealer Tech can connect to the bus on my tractors, combine, planter etc. to make an adjustment or change. No one else has access to the software or hardware necessary.
If Deere is forced to open the system to 3rd parties, I guess it will probably be a good thing. I have no idea what changes that might bring. I know there are those that are really intense about wanting this change, I'm just not sure it matters that much to me!
For the last 10 or 15 years, pretty much every piece of farm level equipment that Deere has sold has been equipped with an Agriculture Management System (AMS). More recently, the AMS systems have grown beyond simply keeping our GPS headings, planted varieties, yield etc. - and now manage and control every function of the machine. Every machine is also equipped with a modem that uploads all machine data to Deere. It's awesome in some ways. I can watch everything I own on Deere's Operations Center App. I can share my GPS Headings, machine locations - almost anything with other farmers. Tech support (from Deere) can watch my in cab display remotely and diagnose problems. Like I said, it's awesome in some ways.
Deere equipment that was stolen by the Russians during the Ukraine invasion was remotely shut down by Deere. They claimed they'd never used that function before, but it obviously exists. There's no way to shut the AMS system down or operate the machine without it in newer equipment. And everything - every function, every operator interaction, every piece of information - is uploaded. The data about every farming operation that uses the equipment is on Deere's servers. I'm not that bothered by the whole thing, however, during farmer conversations (usually a few beers in), it's been brought up that it seems very likely that during harvest, someone could aggregate all of our yield data fairly easily. I'd assume that information might be quite valuable to commodities traders, the government, etc.
I'm generally pretty conservative about what information is out there about me and my farm, but I'm not that worked up about all this. I've never thought Deere has abused the information that they gather from my equipment. At this point, no one, other than a Deere Dealer Tech can connect to the bus on my tractors, combine, planter etc. to make an adjustment or change. No one else has access to the software or hardware necessary.
If Deere is forced to open the system to 3rd parties, I guess it will probably be a good thing. I have no idea what changes that might bring. I know there are those that are really intense about wanting this change, I'm just not sure it matters that much to me!
Re: Minnesota Right to Repair Law
General Electric did that in the 1940's and 1950's with the Down-fire boiler they sold. No one was allowed to work on them except for a GE authorized service provider. That was their downfall because there were no oil heat repair man that worked for the fuel dealers that could get the parts and knew how they worked. Eventually those old GE boilers and furnaces got. to be 20 years old and GE didn't want to work on them any more.
If GE let the oil dealers in on their secret recipe , they could have sold many more boilers because oil dealers would be installing the more efficient clean burning system, to combat the Gas Company who was stealing their oil customers.
PS. @STEVEusaPA, that was an attempt at humor. Sometimes you hit the mark, Sometimes you bomb
If GE let the oil dealers in on their secret recipe , they could have sold many more boilers because oil dealers would be installing the more efficient clean burning system, to combat the Gas Company who was stealing their oil customers.
PS. @STEVEusaPA, that was an attempt at humor. Sometimes you hit the mark, Sometimes you bomb
Re: Minnesota Right to Repair Law
As I understand it, OEMs have been denying consumers and end users the "right to repair" their own stuff by refusing to sell and provide the tech support and needed parts.
RIGHT TO REPAIR laws make this practice illegal. I have had personal experience in this area with motorcycles and vacuum pumps.
RIGHT TO REPAIR laws make this practice illegal. I have had personal experience in this area with motorcycles and vacuum pumps.
Pumpguy
6
Re: Added Vents, Lost Heat?
"and I heard gurgling,"
You have a pitch or sag issue somewhere. You shouldn't hear anything except the sounds of air movement, and with an open pipe, maybe not even that. If there is enough water in the main to cause gurgling, it will effectively function like a close pipe, so no steam will flow.
To be clear about the other floors. Are you saying the radiators on the second and third floor, connected to the front main are getting hot, but on the same main, first floor they are not? Just want to clarify, it's not just which floor they are on, it's also which main they are connected to.
To add to that, if they are on the same main, do the second and third floor come off the main prior to the problem radiators on the first floor?
You have a pitch or sag issue somewhere. You shouldn't hear anything except the sounds of air movement, and with an open pipe, maybe not even that. If there is enough water in the main to cause gurgling, it will effectively function like a close pipe, so no steam will flow.
To be clear about the other floors. Are you saying the radiators on the second and third floor, connected to the front main are getting hot, but on the same main, first floor they are not? Just want to clarify, it's not just which floor they are on, it's also which main they are connected to.
To add to that, if they are on the same main, do the second and third floor come off the main prior to the problem radiators on the first floor?
KC_Jones
2
Re: My pressure tank to the well is filling very slowly
A side note, that small expansion tank, I would try to refill it with a tire pump or compressor and see if it holds air before condemning it. It isn't unusual for the schrader that fills it to leak a little so if it isn't checked and topped off once or twice a year it may lose its charge. There needs to be no pressure on the water side when the pressure is set in both tanks.
mattmia2
1
Re: My pressure tank to the well is filling very slowly
My guess would be the expansion tank is defective especially if it is waterlogged. If you change it be VERY cautious it will be very heavy when full of water. Best bet is to drill a small hole in the old tank and let the water out with the tank isolated of course.
Other issue is your water filter could be plugged as could the pressure switch connection.
# 1 check water filter
#2chech expansion tank with pump off and well tank drained check air pressure in expansion tank. Should be about 38 psi on the air side. Remove plastic cap on the bottom and use a tire pressure gauge. If you get any water out of that connection the expansion tank connection is bad.
#3 remove and check/clean pressure switch connection
Other issue is your water filter could be plugged as could the pressure switch connection.
# 1 check water filter
#2chech expansion tank with pump off and well tank drained check air pressure in expansion tank. Should be about 38 psi on the air side. Remove plastic cap on the bottom and use a tire pressure gauge. If you get any water out of that connection the expansion tank connection is bad.
#3 remove and check/clean pressure switch connection
