Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
If our community has helped you, please consider making a contribution to support this website. Thanks!
Best Of
Re: Atmospheric boiler efficiency
The boiler of any given size can only absorb so much heat. The boiler MFGs are all in competition to compete with each other on a price point. Companies like HB Smith sized their boilers a little more conservatively that is why they are basically out of business.
Boiler mfgs push their output up to use a smaller boiler to be competitive. If one boiler mfg. uses a 3-section boiler and one uses a 4-section boiler to get the same heat output the 3-section boiler is likely less $$$. Longer life better efficiency are obtained by reducing the btu input and output. JMHO
If you fire the boiler with less input the stack temperature must come down. If the other #s stay about the same your efficiency has to increase. Combustion analyzers don't know BTU input, but they do measure stack temp.
Now if you under fire the boiler too much thing will go in the wrong direction. Flue temps drop too low and condensation results. Warm up time gets longer and burns mor fuel.
I am talking a 5-15% decrease in the maximum firing rate.
Boiler mfgs push their output up to use a smaller boiler to be competitive. If one boiler mfg. uses a 3-section boiler and one uses a 4-section boiler to get the same heat output the 3-section boiler is likely less $$$. Longer life better efficiency are obtained by reducing the btu input and output. JMHO
If you fire the boiler with less input the stack temperature must come down. If the other #s stay about the same your efficiency has to increase. Combustion analyzers don't know BTU input, but they do measure stack temp.
Now if you under fire the boiler too much thing will go in the wrong direction. Flue temps drop too low and condensation results. Warm up time gets longer and burns mor fuel.
I am talking a 5-15% decrease in the maximum firing rate.
Re: Are mod-con high efficiency boilers false economy Vs traditional cast iron over a longer time frame?
Hey just to stir the pot all these incentives and rebates who you think is paying for it ? Do you think it’s a free money give away heck no that’s our tax paying being giving to some one who correctly fills out paper work and they get our money . It’s not the utlities money or the stock holders it’s our money it’s our free non existing form of barber called money . . In a lot of cases if the rebate is spoken about and not recieved the contractor ends up w mud on there face and an angry customer who excepted some refund coin . I leave all rebates and thoughts of rebates to the customer alone I never entertain the thoughts . I ve seen a lot of people who where better off money wise then everyone I ever known apply and get rebates on all sorts on nonsense which I find unethical being in short just milking the system and getting something for free just cause you can ,I find it even more disgusting when commercial building owners who neglect there hvac system for multi decades and get a 40 % discount of complete high eff package units w duct work and financing when they own the building are loaded but they hid there money and got us to pay for it . Being they have zero money are poor but yet own a commercial building which I believe they collect rent on strange dealo . Greed this is always after a total waste of my time fiquring out a job which I will not get because they can get it for 1/2 price from the gas or electric co .
Please don’t get me wrong I love mod cons love the tech the eff but what I dislike is putting the squeeze on customers who except 20 or 30 years for a boiler and to get sucker in replacement in 10 to 15 ,come on where s the eff of that only eff is the return customer to replace there wall hung when no one can it repair or the return on the investment of the repair is not merited , where is the Enviromental concerns of waste and energy required to make all this disposable junk ,not a concern it keeps the global economy functioning some what . There’s your bigger question . Is what you doing serving man kind conserving the natural resources and doing a service to man kind by conserving these things and not repeating the same over and over . Quite a predicament we find ourselves in possibly moral being the moral of needing more to continue in a constant non advancing circle of non logic running around in a circle getting zero done I think that’s no good .
I’m hoping one day the only thing needed to heat a home is a fart that low of a Btu requirement we would all be outta job but image zero co emissions next bring back the dinosaurs and we can start all over again and maybe not make the same mistakes over and over again .
Remember just stirring a pot
Peace and good luck clammy and happy and safe holidays to all ,no matter which pagan celebration you enjoy on this plain of duality . I like the wearing of goat leggings and Viking horns while slamming mead . lol
Please don’t get me wrong I love mod cons love the tech the eff but what I dislike is putting the squeeze on customers who except 20 or 30 years for a boiler and to get sucker in replacement in 10 to 15 ,come on where s the eff of that only eff is the return customer to replace there wall hung when no one can it repair or the return on the investment of the repair is not merited , where is the Enviromental concerns of waste and energy required to make all this disposable junk ,not a concern it keeps the global economy functioning some what . There’s your bigger question . Is what you doing serving man kind conserving the natural resources and doing a service to man kind by conserving these things and not repeating the same over and over . Quite a predicament we find ourselves in possibly moral being the moral of needing more to continue in a constant non advancing circle of non logic running around in a circle getting zero done I think that’s no good .
I’m hoping one day the only thing needed to heat a home is a fart that low of a Btu requirement we would all be outta job but image zero co emissions next bring back the dinosaurs and we can start all over again and maybe not make the same mistakes over and over again .
Remember just stirring a pot
Peace and good luck clammy and happy and safe holidays to all ,no matter which pagan celebration you enjoy on this plain of duality . I like the wearing of goat leggings and Viking horns while slamming mead . lol
clammy
2
Re: What is acceptable delta T
So Mike,
as long as I am significantly above the minimum gpm (12 gpm), we should be OK? With the pump I was going to use, we'd probably have a 25 delta T. Currentlt, with our oversized pump running and our furthest air handler calling for heat, our delta T is about 1. Which reminds me, to set the flow, I was told that we should have all zones calling for heat and then throttle back the globe valve at the boiler pump outlet to get about 25 delta tee. Is that correct?
as long as I am significantly above the minimum gpm (12 gpm), we should be OK? With the pump I was going to use, we'd probably have a 25 delta T. Currentlt, with our oversized pump running and our furthest air handler calling for heat, our delta T is about 1. Which reminds me, to set the flow, I was told that we should have all zones calling for heat and then throttle back the globe valve at the boiler pump outlet to get about 25 delta tee. Is that correct?
Dave_61
1
Re: Are mod-con high efficiency boilers false economy Vs traditional cast iron over a longer time frame?
@PC7060
Your right. But some consider heating and AC as an evil that they have to pay to operate in fuel costs, pay to have it serviced and pay to have it installed /replaced. They see no value in it. They would rather spend their money on a new car or truck, a swimming pool, deck, hot tub etc that their friends and neighbors can see and use.
Your right. But some consider heating and AC as an evil that they have to pay to operate in fuel costs, pay to have it serviced and pay to have it installed /replaced. They see no value in it. They would rather spend their money on a new car or truck, a swimming pool, deck, hot tub etc that their friends and neighbors can see and use.
Re: Link to news article about heating fuel sources
What was that quote about statistics? There are lies... etc. Nothing wrong with the map. Nothing wrong with the percentages. In completely ignoring differing climates, the variability of access and differences in regional pricing, misleading at best.
Take the northeast and Alaska and their concentration of oil burning vs. other sources. Could it possibly have something to do with no or very limited access to natural gas? Sky high propane prices? Astronomical electricity rates? Consider the concentration of electricity in the south. Coud it possibly have something to do with a remarkably benign winter climate and a need for air conditioning instead? How about propane in the mid-west? Maybe it's favoured by low prices due to extensive agricultural use and no natural gas availability?
And so on. You have to look at the whole picture...
Take the northeast and Alaska and their concentration of oil burning vs. other sources. Could it possibly have something to do with no or very limited access to natural gas? Sky high propane prices? Astronomical electricity rates? Consider the concentration of electricity in the south. Coud it possibly have something to do with a remarkably benign winter climate and a need for air conditioning instead? How about propane in the mid-west? Maybe it's favoured by low prices due to extensive agricultural use and no natural gas availability?
And so on. You have to look at the whole picture...
Re: Link to news article about heating fuel sources
The American Community Survey fails to take into account the number of coal users in the nothern states and Alaska. The number of households and businesses that burn, lignite coal, Sub Bituminous Coal, Bituminous coal and Anthracite coal are growing.
leonz
2
Re: Occupation
I remember the First time meeting Gary Wilson at a Jim Davis & Al D Ambola (RIP PAL) Somewhere deep in Penna . His beautiful young wife was there, met Mark Hunt & Darin Cooke (USAF Iraq & Afghanistan) in person, Jody Litten (Lost Touch). We all found out about this Carbon Monoxide Seminar at HH.COM The Wall. It was a great bonding & weekend of Camraderie, Education, Imbibing till all hours. Gary and I had just went out on our own, so this was 1999-2000ish. At its peak, Triple Crown P & H employed 5 Plumbers 1 helper and an office manager until 2008 Depression. With a Ginormous Mortgage, 3 Catholic School tuitions, after a great 12 year run, I went back to The Union. Very proud of you Gary. You done good, boy, real good 👍. Mad Dog 🐕
Re: Situational Water Hammer
Hello @KarlW,
As much as pressuretrol / vaporstat are relatively simple they certainly have their issues working correctly and holding calibration, if they ever had it. You may be able to re-calibrate it. I suspect in some cases if the system falls into a vacuum the vaporstat diagram may be damaged.
Did you catch "Money-Well" in the one video ?
If you want better control, you may want to look into controls like the Dwyer Photohelic 3030 or similar.
The Down sides;
Cost, may not be too bad, new, new old stock, used on eBay.
You have to think in inches of Water Column.
It needs its own AC power.
You have to install it, connect it to your system.
Up side, You may have much better control of your pressure and differential setings. And / Or maybe just use a timer to limit the run time and duty cycle.
Leave the other barely functional stuff connected as some marginal safety factor and to make the inspectors happy.
EDIT: Forgot the picture.
As much as pressuretrol / vaporstat are relatively simple they certainly have their issues working correctly and holding calibration, if they ever had it. You may be able to re-calibrate it. I suspect in some cases if the system falls into a vacuum the vaporstat diagram may be damaged.
Did you catch "Money-Well" in the one video ?
If you want better control, you may want to look into controls like the Dwyer Photohelic 3030 or similar.
The Down sides;
Cost, may not be too bad, new, new old stock, used on eBay.
You have to think in inches of Water Column.
It needs its own AC power.
You have to install it, connect it to your system.
Up side, You may have much better control of your pressure and differential setings. And / Or maybe just use a timer to limit the run time and duty cycle.
Leave the other barely functional stuff connected as some marginal safety factor and to make the inspectors happy.
EDIT: Forgot the picture.
109A_5
1
Re: Risk of cracking gas hot water boiler when adding fresh water
These can be a compromise between leaving the water on or off. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Axiom-MF200-MF200-PRESSURE-PAL-Hydronic-Mini-System-Feeder-6-Gallon
It sounds like you may have added cold water to a dry and hot boiler and it flashed to steam. This may have damaged the boiler.
Does you boiler have a LWCO (low water cutoff). If not, it really should!
It sounds like you may have added cold water to a dry and hot boiler and it flashed to steam. This may have damaged the boiler.
Does you boiler have a LWCO (low water cutoff). If not, it really should!
Zman
1
Re: Radiant System not heating
That controller is a rebranded Tekmar. If you need parts or instructions it would be easier to get them from Tekmar. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Tekmar-152-Two-Stage-Setpoint-Control-4151000-p
You should be able to see what temperature the sensor is reading by scrolling through the menu. If the temp seems inaccurate you probably have a loose or bad sensor.
If you pull the bottom panel and jumper from 3 to 4 and/or. 5 to 6 the heat pump or boiler should fire if they are operating correctly.
You should be able to see what temperature the sensor is reading by scrolling through the menu. If the temp seems inaccurate you probably have a loose or bad sensor.
If you pull the bottom panel and jumper from 3 to 4 and/or. 5 to 6 the heat pump or boiler should fire if they are operating correctly.
Zman
1