Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Best Of
Re: Lowering Burner Temp in Summer.
Here is a detailed description of how your water heater works.
If there is no call for heat
1. The boiler maintains a minimum temperature (usually 160°) so when there is a hot water tap opened there will be enough heat in the boiler to transfer to the cold water running through the coil in order to have a desired minimum hot water temperature.
2. If there is no need for Domestic Hot Water (DHW), then the non moving water in the coil will absorb the heat from the boiler and may be as hot as the boiler water temperature.
3. In condition #2 above, that hot water will exit the coil and proceed to any open tap. That water can be so hot that you could get burned.
4. Once a DHW tap is opened, the initial hot blast of water from the coil exits the coil en route to the tap. Then cold water running thru the coil will absorb heat from the boiler as stated in #2 above
5. At that point you may, but not necessarily get a reasonably stable flow of hot water, depending on the temperature control settings in the Hydrostat 3250-Plus.
If there is a call for heat
7. The boiler temperature will lower as the circulator pumps hot boiler water to the radiators.
8. This will cause the boiler water temperature around the coil to drop below the minimum needed to maintain adequate Domestic Hot Water (DHW) for a shower.
9. if that happens the Hydrostat 3250-Plus will shut off the circulator pump and operate the burner until the boiler water temperature is at or above the minimum in item #1 above.
10. During extreme cold weather the burner may operate for longer periods of time. This may cause the boiler water temperature to increase past the minimum needed for DHW
11. In this case the burner may operate until the boiler water temperature reaches the High Limit setting (Like 180°)
12. If there is no DHW usage during the heating cycle, the DHW water in the coil can absorb all that higher temperature heat from the boiler and be on standby at 180° as in condition #3 above
So during normal operation the boiler water can be as high as 180° and as low as 140° if the Hydrostat 3250-Plus is set at 160° low and 180° high. This happens automatically and is constantly changing as the boiler cycles thru a call for minimum DHW temperature and high limit temperature and varying calls for heat from the zones.
The only proven way to make sure that 180° DHW from the tankless coil never reaches your shower or sink is to have a tempering valve.
This is a diagram of what the mixing valve will do for your system. See how the valve will automatically adjust the amount of hot and the amount of cold to the outlet so it will stay at a safe temperature
If there is no call for heat
1. The boiler maintains a minimum temperature (usually 160°) so when there is a hot water tap opened there will be enough heat in the boiler to transfer to the cold water running through the coil in order to have a desired minimum hot water temperature.
2. If there is no need for Domestic Hot Water (DHW), then the non moving water in the coil will absorb the heat from the boiler and may be as hot as the boiler water temperature.
3. In condition #2 above, that hot water will exit the coil and proceed to any open tap. That water can be so hot that you could get burned.
4. Once a DHW tap is opened, the initial hot blast of water from the coil exits the coil en route to the tap. Then cold water running thru the coil will absorb heat from the boiler as stated in #2 above
5. At that point you may, but not necessarily get a reasonably stable flow of hot water, depending on the temperature control settings in the Hydrostat 3250-Plus.
If there is a call for heat
7. The boiler temperature will lower as the circulator pumps hot boiler water to the radiators.
8. This will cause the boiler water temperature around the coil to drop below the minimum needed to maintain adequate Domestic Hot Water (DHW) for a shower.
9. if that happens the Hydrostat 3250-Plus will shut off the circulator pump and operate the burner until the boiler water temperature is at or above the minimum in item #1 above.
10. During extreme cold weather the burner may operate for longer periods of time. This may cause the boiler water temperature to increase past the minimum needed for DHW
11. In this case the burner may operate until the boiler water temperature reaches the High Limit setting (Like 180°)
12. If there is no DHW usage during the heating cycle, the DHW water in the coil can absorb all that higher temperature heat from the boiler and be on standby at 180° as in condition #3 above
So during normal operation the boiler water can be as high as 180° and as low as 140° if the Hydrostat 3250-Plus is set at 160° low and 180° high. This happens automatically and is constantly changing as the boiler cycles thru a call for minimum DHW temperature and high limit temperature and varying calls for heat from the zones.
The only proven way to make sure that 180° DHW from the tankless coil never reaches your shower or sink is to have a tempering valve.
But to answer your question about turning down the low limit temperature on the Hydrostat 3250-Plus, the answer is YES. it will be trial and error as you select different lower temperatures. if you set it at 140° and you do not experience any problems with your hot water, then you are good to go. If you find that the hot water temperature is too cool, then Raise the Low Limit to 145°. Continue this process until there are no hot water complaints.
But MORE IMPORTANT...
Get a Mixing Valve installed ASAPThis is a diagram of what the mixing valve will do for your system. See how the valve will automatically adjust the amount of hot and the amount of cold to the outlet so it will stay at a safe temperature
Re: Taco Zone sentry question
Cv is correct, orifice size is the same so when you have more flow through 1” line it creates a higher pressure drop.
Re: Heat capture from compost using radiator in pile of woodchips
I put some hydronic coils in a compost once, what I found us the coils cooled down the compost fairly quickly
I don’t know how you could calculate the BTU output of the pile to pull the amount it can generate without dropping to the point where the heat stops?
I don’t know how you could calculate the BTU output of the pile to pull the amount it can generate without dropping to the point where the heat stops?
hot_rod
2
Re: Fresh Air Inlet styles...
And in Massachusetts your prohibited from having your storm water and your sewer water in the same system. The main reason being that when you have a storm you overwhelm your sewer treatment plants and they have to emergency dump raw sewage into wherever they would discharge the treated wastewater.
Re: Taco Zone sentry question
I don't have these to physically look at them but dimensions seem off too
says 1/2" "F" dimension is the same as the 3/4" but the total length "E" for 1/2" is 1-1/2" longer than 3/4".
says 1/2" "F" dimension is the same as the 3/4" but the total length "E" for 1/2" is 1-1/2" longer than 3/4".
dko
1
Re: Fresh Air Inlet styles...
Ten years ago I lived in an 1862 townhouse in the Back Bay section of Boston. The house was divided into four condominiums. The first few floors were a high end unit with a fully finished basement, including carpeting and plenty of millwork.
The basement flooded with sewage. A camera inspection of the sewer lateral revealed a house trap under the back yard, clogged with tampon applicators.
They dug it up, eliminated the house trap and replaced the very old lateral with a new one.
The basement flooded with sewage. A camera inspection of the sewer lateral revealed a house trap under the back yard, clogged with tampon applicators.
They dug it up, eliminated the house trap and replaced the very old lateral with a new one.
bburd
3
Re: Cast radiator question
Nope. No problem. Just hang it properly so all the weight is not on the connected piping.
Is this for steam or Hot water? Make sure you have the proper vent location. Top for Hot water and bottom 1/3 on the opposite side of the supply for a Steamer. on the steamer you will need a slight pitch so condensation does not build up on any of the "ladder rungs" then drip off into a hot steaming area and flash (BANG) into steam again. That will not be a good design.
Is this for steam or Hot water? Make sure you have the proper vent location. Top for Hot water and bottom 1/3 on the opposite side of the supply for a Steamer. on the steamer you will need a slight pitch so condensation does not build up on any of the "ladder rungs" then drip off into a hot steaming area and flash (BANG) into steam again. That will not be a good design.
Re: Cast radiator question
I could be wrong but I believe what you have there is a pair of No. 7-A Peerless Wall Radiators made by the American Radiator Company. The 1925 catalog says on page 3: "Should always be assembled with bars vertical to insure highest heating efficiency." Every picture in that catalog has them assembled this way. Also says on page 19: "Suggested forms of application to piers or narrow spacings. It will be seen in these applications that the bars of the radiator sections are always vertical."
https://archive.org/details/americanpeerless00amer/page/2/mode/2up
A 1929 catalog says the same thing, "Peerless Wall Radiators should always be assembled with bars vertical to secure greatest heating efficiency. The 7- and 9-foot Sections are, therefore, made in two styles: Nos. 7-A and 9-A have bars running crosswise of the Section and are regularly tapped for connecting end to end as illustrated. Nos. 7-B and 9-B have bars running lengthwise of the Section and are regularly tapped for connecting side by side as illustrated."
https://archive.org/details/american-radiator-company-pdf-a/page/n219/mode/2up
But then in this older 1910 catalog with Rococo Wall Radiators, on page 209, it shows them connected with the bars horizontal:
https://archive.org/details/idealfitterradia00amerrich/page/208/mode/2up
Neither catalog shows any radiator piped vertically into the bottom though the way you want to do it. So like Ed said, it's probably okay as long as everything is properly supported with brackets, but it's not the preferred way to do it. The catalogs above have many installation suggestions. Based on my calculations for linear expansion of cast iron, it might expand 1-1.1 mm vertically, so you might want to leave a tiny bit of space between the rad and the top part of the bracket to account for that. I think I see a plug on the vent. That may be tough to remove if it's single pipe steam.
https://archive.org/details/americanpeerless00amer/page/2/mode/2up
A 1929 catalog says the same thing, "Peerless Wall Radiators should always be assembled with bars vertical to secure greatest heating efficiency. The 7- and 9-foot Sections are, therefore, made in two styles: Nos. 7-A and 9-A have bars running crosswise of the Section and are regularly tapped for connecting end to end as illustrated. Nos. 7-B and 9-B have bars running lengthwise of the Section and are regularly tapped for connecting side by side as illustrated."
https://archive.org/details/american-radiator-company-pdf-a/page/n219/mode/2up
But then in this older 1910 catalog with Rococo Wall Radiators, on page 209, it shows them connected with the bars horizontal:
https://archive.org/details/idealfitterradia00amerrich/page/208/mode/2up
Neither catalog shows any radiator piped vertically into the bottom though the way you want to do it. So like Ed said, it's probably okay as long as everything is properly supported with brackets, but it's not the preferred way to do it. The catalogs above have many installation suggestions. Based on my calculations for linear expansion of cast iron, it might expand 1-1.1 mm vertically, so you might want to leave a tiny bit of space between the rad and the top part of the bracket to account for that. I think I see a plug on the vent. That may be tough to remove if it's single pipe steam.
Re: AC contractor recommendations Nassau Co. Or Western Queens
Most of the shops are filled with installers , with very few experience mechanics that can figure out the problem. Shot gun repair with selling new . The guys with the knowledge seem to be moving out .
The demand for AC service is very high right now with the high humidity . I have been hitting areas with limited travel .
The demand for AC service is very high right now with the high humidity . I have been hitting areas with limited travel .
Big Ed_4
1
Re: Pex - Is the extra cost worth it...
Long term quality of the oxygen barrier would be a consideration for me.
I've used MrPex, Uponor, Vanguard, and Watts in a slab. I'd go with a USA or EU made pex-b for slab work. Like @GroundUp I don't see the benefit of pex-a where we are talking about long straight runs, and bending 180 degrees at the end. Those bends don't need to be perfectly tidy and fit in the 6" wire mesh grid.
Personally I don't care about expandability on slab runs. It's going to be terminated with a manifold right? Compression connections generally.... so any pex will work.
Most important part of a slab is protecting the protrusions where the tube emerges from the slab, and keeping sunlight off of it after the pour. Very few installs I see cover up the pex bundle with black plastic. I use black contractor's garbage bags and tape over the pex until the building is built.
I really refuse to use China made pex.....
SIDE NOTE: every radiant slab I've done I connect all the loops together, plug the end and put at least 50 psi of air in the tube. That way if the concrete crew damages the tube somewhere you'll know it. I'm always on site during the pour, and have some couplings and shrink tube that will fit over my crimp rings and couplings. Wear tall boots in case you need to go in the crete!
I've used MrPex, Uponor, Vanguard, and Watts in a slab. I'd go with a USA or EU made pex-b for slab work. Like @GroundUp I don't see the benefit of pex-a where we are talking about long straight runs, and bending 180 degrees at the end. Those bends don't need to be perfectly tidy and fit in the 6" wire mesh grid.
Personally I don't care about expandability on slab runs. It's going to be terminated with a manifold right? Compression connections generally.... so any pex will work.
Most important part of a slab is protecting the protrusions where the tube emerges from the slab, and keeping sunlight off of it after the pour. Very few installs I see cover up the pex bundle with black plastic. I use black contractor's garbage bags and tape over the pex until the building is built.
I really refuse to use China made pex.....
SIDE NOTE: every radiant slab I've done I connect all the loops together, plug the end and put at least 50 psi of air in the tube. That way if the concrete crew damages the tube somewhere you'll know it. I'm always on site during the pour, and have some couplings and shrink tube that will fit over my crimp rings and couplings. Wear tall boots in case you need to go in the crete!
