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Re: How to repair cement substance from oil boiler to oil burner

Who services the burner and boiler?

I can't tell from the pics, but the burner doesn't seem to be supported by a pedestal. Is there a piece of pipe or something propping up the burner?

The cement is around the air tube because the burner it replaced had a larger diameter air tube. Not exactly "by the book", but passable... last century.

That also doesn't look like a Firomatic valve. If it is, its really old.

What combustion numbers are you getting?

HVACNUT

Re: Should I be worried about what I am observing and hearing (radiant heat install in process)?

Without knowing exactly how much heat you will be needing above that floor I hesitate to make a blanket statement, but having retrofit my own old house and done some other design/install of floor radiant heat, this install is NOT going to work for anything beyond some minor floor warming. Even with a high water temperature and a correctly sized air cavity above the correctly installed insulation below, you will not be satisfied. Just for starters, the heat will not be evenly spaced on the floor and you will have warm and cold stripes.

Also, the higher the water temperature in the tubing, the more movement of the tubing which will mean noise as it slips back and forth through the holes in the joists and past those half-clip tube supports. Those are not the correct support for this type of installation.

This install is not even close to correct for Ultra-Fin either. I've installed that product too.

I don't know how the contract is drawn up, but stop this job immediately until you can be shown the design criteria for the job, how it is supposed to work and the operating parameters of the system. I don't know everything about floor heating but I know enough that this install at best will not work well and maybe even not at all.

epmiller

Re: tie into existing boiler or get new tankless

You can use outdoor reset on the CI radiators using the boiler ODR setup. You can then use this https://www.tacocomfort.com/documents/FileLibrary/101-089.pdf to reset the lower cast iron reset temperature to an even lower reset temperature for the floor heat. “Reset the reset”

@HVACNUT has a good idea with keeping the CI radiators and just heat them when the floor is not enough on very cold days. If the first floor renovations call for removing the cast iron, perhaps you can relocate them and perhaps eliminate only one of two. Or perhaps use some panel radiators on a separate zone that can be staged for when the floor is not able to keep up with the extreme cold

Also that is a pretty big boiler for a 900 square foot 2 bedroom rancher.

EdTheHeaterMan

Re: Boiler sight glass water condition

I can't say that I necessarily agree with Paul's instructions. The idea that adding water and immediately draining it, is detrimental to the boiler, is still a theory (I think). But having sludge and mud in your water is not good for anything. I would suggest putting a bunch of eight way in. Doesn't really matter if you're overloading, because this is only temporary. Jack up the thermostat and let the boiler run until it starts to steam. Shut boiler and wait a few minutes. As long as boiler is hot, the eight-way will do its thing. Wait 10 minutes or whatever, and then turn boiler back on until it starts steaming again. Repeat for 30 to 60 minutes. Afterwards drain, fill to the top of boiler, drain, fill drain fill until water comes out clear. If you happen to have a water transfer pump, will be quicker and easier. Once water is clear, fill to normal water level and add some eight way. Run the boiler immediately and let boiler Steam for a bunch of minutes, to boil out the oxygen. You may need to repeat a few times initially, due to sludge getting dislodge from the returns and things like that.

STEAM DOCTOR

Re: Boiler sight glass water condition

don’t follow the directions. They want you to use too much.

At 896 sq ft that is a big boiler. I assume you have a big house.

I would try like 1/3 cup is all then see what happens. It will likely free up a lot of sediment and/or scale.

Be prepared to have to drain that off if your boiler surges (throws water into the mains resulting in a dramatic drop in the water line).

If you have to drain some or all the water due to that, add a little less when you refill.

Then let it be for a week or two. Then see if you can drain a little more to let out more chocolate milk.

The goal is to drain as little as possible to eventually get clean water

Your water is very clear in your photos. If you’re lucky you won’t have to do much

ethicalpaul

Re: Should I be worried about what I am observing and hearing (radiant heat install in process)?

Heat load divided by room sqft.

Most manufacturers show data for standard house setup. That is 3/4" subfloor with either tile or hardwood over it. Even if your subfloor is 7/8" planks, it won't change the heat transfer enough to worry about. So if your flooring close enough to standard, you don't need to worry about R value.

Most manufacturers also show how much insulation they want under the emitters to meet required btu output.

You can use the data from tables the manufacturer provides for loop spacing and number of emitters. I would aim for 140F water at design time which should get you good efficiency out of a condensing boiler.

It never hurts to add more emitters than required, this will only bring down the water temperature required which again helps with efficiency. It doesn't change how hot the floor will feel so not much drawback except a bit more material cost.

Kaos

Re: The "equalizer" is mis-named. It does nothing to equalize anything.

I'm seeing several different ideas about what the "equalizer" does regarding pressure, and that doesn't surprise me, since it doesn't actually do anything, people are going to have different imaginary ideas about it! I will try to address these, but Jamie started off things difficult by both saying I'm right and wrong and bringing up two pipe boilers which isn't going to help me address the issues plainly, but I will try, with respect and thanks to all respondents!!

the equalizer serves to ensure that the total head at the boiler end of the wet return will be the same as the pressure in the boiler, thus allowing water to pass from the wet return through the Hartford Loop into the boiler.

My drawings (which I haven't heard complaints about) show that the PSI is the same in the boiler, and at the boiler end of the wet return regardless of the existence of the "equalizer". Please explain that.

Again, the equalizer ensures that the pressure in the wet return is the same as the pressure in the boiler, As in the one pipe case, this ensures that the water in the wet return can get into the Hartford Lopp and on into the boiler.

The pressure is the same even if there is no "equalizer". The "equalizer" is doing nothing to the pressure. We all have seen boilers without it, and somehow the water gets back into the boiler. This is because the main delivers close to the boiler psi to the start of the wet return. It's a little less which lets the water level be higher there, as in my drawing.

To @The Steam Whisperer

The equalizer works as a team with the Hartford loop. Without it, there is less pressure at the return pipe into the boiler than in the boiler, so water can back up and then over the Hartford loop.

With or without it, the boiler pressure is present at the return pipe into the boiler. Look at my second drawing in my original post. Is there anything wrong about it? The "equalizer" is just another path that delivers the same pressure. It changes nothing. No?

To @109A_5

The Equalizer decouples two different sections of the system, the Boiler and the Wet Return.

Without the Equalizer the pressure at point A will raise the water level at point C 27.68 inches per pound.

The "equalizer" does not decouple anything. In all my drawings, the pressure at the boiler and at the wet return's entry to the boiler are always the same, "equalizer" or no. Tell me where those drawings are wrong, and then tell me again what the "equalizer" is supposedly doing, thanks!

With or without the "equalizer", the ~~pressure~~ (edit: I meant "water level"!!) at the far end of the wet return will raise, marked as C in your drawing, this is absolutely correct. But it will raise according to the pressure differential between the boiler, and the end of the main. Do you agree? In both of our drawings the boiler's pressure is delivered to your point C with the pressure drop of the radiators providing that differential and that water level rise. It's not very much, and soon I will measure it.

ethicalpaul

Re: Help choosing a new boiler (part 2)

I am unfamiliar with the IBC equipment. I worked mostly in Philadelphia PA and Southern NJ and never had a chance to see one in operation. I looked at the installation instructions for the SFB-99-1 and the SFB-120-1 and they appear to be a well built product. Their maintenance instructions take up 6 pages in their manual, This seems pretty comprehensive. If you have a reputable contractor that is familiar with the equipment, I see no reason to avoid this product. just make sure to have a professional maintenance completed every year.

Of course I can't indorse it without having looked at it up close or knowing about its longevity. I can say that this will not be your last boiler since none of the condensing boilers have a life expectancy of more than about 17 years, however with proper maintenance there is no reason that it can't have a useful life span of 20 years or more.

These new fangled things just don't last the way the old cast iron standing pilot boilers did. That is progress. Planned obsolescence in order to make you purchase something "Better" in the future.

EdTheHeaterMan

Re: Should I be worried about what I am observing and hearing (radiant heat install in process)?

A bit on the high side for the warmer climate based on the envelope description but probably in the ballpark.

So most of your rooms are 10BTU/sqft, there are some a bit higher with the big room at 20.

The existing staple up will work no problem up to 10BTU/sqft. For the higher loss ones, I would go with either heat plates or ultra fin. Size the spacing of the heat plates to supply the /sqft load in those rooms.

It might also be a good idea to extra heat to the tiled spaces and have the balancing set for those to supply the bulk of the space heat. For example during the shoulder season the floor heat in my bathroom will supply enough heat without needing to run any other zones and keeps the tiles there nice and toasty.

Something to keep in mind that at 10BTU/sqft your floors will not feel warm even on the coldest day. They won't be cold and the house will be comfortable just don't expect toasty toes feeling. It is not real winter here yet, 25F outside, and my floors are at 75F.

Kaos

Re: Valve and thermocouple good. Pilot will not stay lit

Had the same problem with the pilot lighting and staying lit in my old RV. Cleaning the pilot orifice solved the lighting problem. Replaced thermocouple and still had a problem staying lit. Both new and old thermocouple gave 25-30 mv when tested. Lightly sanded the gas valve end of the thermocouple and gently scraped the female contact point in the gas valve with a phillips screw driver and the pilot lit and stays lit. The 30mv were not getting to the pilot light lock in coil.

David37