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Re: Munchkin 80MLP Advice Needed
I have only 1 Munchkin left that I service now. It is on a baseboard system, and supplies the heat for the hot water holding tank. Very little condensation seems to be the trick for these pioneering boilers. Any that I installed or serviced that were used for floor heat were all gone by year eight. That has a lot to do with our gas situation here in metro Vancouver, a lot of iron particulate in our gas, so it attacks the cheaper stainless used in these boilers as it condenses out.
I still have my druthers about these mod-cons. I service many standard boilers that are way past 30 - 40 years of age, and it appears that they will go another 20 or more. Taking into the life cycle, ease of repair and cost of our gas, I still believe the best investment is with a standard boiler, but most times feel like I am howling into the wind!
I still have my druthers about these mod-cons. I service many standard boilers that are way past 30 - 40 years of age, and it appears that they will go another 20 or more. Taking into the life cycle, ease of repair and cost of our gas, I still believe the best investment is with a standard boiler, but most times feel like I am howling into the wind!
Leo_G
0
Re: Water Level in Gauge Glass
If you have the owner's manual, check it for the placement of that "Lowest permissable Water level" tag also. Where it is placed now is wrong. It should be on the panel, somewhere around mid way up the glass. Not an issue if you know where the water level should be, but a big issue for anyone who isn't familiar with that boiler.
Fred
0
Re: Water Level in Gauge Glass
I know, with the LWCO operating, what is the sense to even have that sticker there. The actual water level has the sticker and also a dimple in the jacket.I'm not sure. I know my Burnham has several demples in the panel where one could drill for the various plates. I assummed some of those panels were interchangable with different boiler models and depending on which model you had, you drill for the plate accordingly. In no case would there be a sticker at or below the bottom of the sight glass. If there is a need for a plate anywhere on the sight glass, it should read " Normal Water Level" and be done with it.
FWIIW, I don't think the factory would want the installer to determine the water level in their boiler. And if I were the installer I would not want the responsibility of doing so. It seems that the physical dimensions of the block and amount of heat applied would set the water line.
Fred
0
Re: Water Level in Gauge Glass
Putting the tag that says "Lowest Permissable Water level" below the bottom of the sight glass is not right and I know you know that. Some things are just not worth auguing about. Who else on this site would consider a water level below the sight glass, where you can't even see the water level, permissable for normal operation. I can not imagine any boiler manufacturer being willing to accept liability for tagging a "Permissible Water Level" at a point below the bottom of the sight glass where it isn't easily visable to the homeowner.
Fred
0
Re: Water Level in Gauge Glass
I think it is drilled and installed by the installer. I have a Burnham and the tag is placed at just above the middle of the glass. If I were to let the water get as low as the tag in this picture, i'm pretty sure there'd be a UFO seen in the neighborhood on a cold winter day. That tag has to go somewhere above the LWCO probe.
Fred
0
Re: Need Help With Radiant Floor Heating-How to operate my system
What advantage has HW heating with electric resistance for energy source? Now if bridger intends to eventually use a heat pump then there may be some point to make existing system functional. But why rush the job? A couple of hundred dollars worth of electric space heaters will do the job. If he needs new electric circuits job can be done faster than pressure testing pipes and then fixing leaks. Also this forum proves how many problems happen with HW radiant.
jumper
0
Purchased a former school with steam / pneumatic heating - HELP!
Hi everyone, I have been doing all sorts of research and checking out many of the threads on this site which has some great information. Here is my situation - I will try to keep it fairly brief. I will continue to add questions as I progress with this sytem...
I have just closed on the purchase of a former elementary school. Its one level, approx. 23000 sq ft. It has 2 large boilers for heat and is a 2 pipe steam system. Thermostats / actuators are all pneumatic. The school has been maintained, but not in service for the last 7 years. Heat was maintained with sensors which turned the boiler(s) on at 55 deg. and off at 58
Siemens has installed some controls for day/night mode and a few other things which is for a separate thread.
I have already found and fixed a couple of air leaks, but the air compressor in the basement runs about every 13 mins for a few mins at a time. Correct me if I am wrong, but this seems like a lot. Compressor kicks on at 45psi, off at 70psi. Then the pressure is reduced to 25psi or 8psi, depending on if the system is in day/night mode.
My main concern right now is maintenance. I have not counted the steam traps, but I would guess there are approx 50. Mostly F&T and Thermostatic i believe. Also many strainers and controls for HVAC which I am assuming is due to the fresh air intake that is required for public schools. When I turn the boilers to "day" mode, steam pressure is maintained. Boilers kick on at 3psi and off at 7psi, which seems to be high based on what I have been reading. However, I have had trouble finding much info on commercial systems. I have not messed with pressuretrols or anything since I am scared that I will screw other parts of the system up.
Anyway - main issue is that I am blowing a decent amount of steam from the return condensate tank air vent. I am guessing this is from failed steam traps. I have done a ton of research on trying to find failed traps with no success. I have a thermal imaging camera and also purchased an ultrasonic tester. Both of these methods have not helped me to find a trap that is definitely failed. The traps we have opened up seem to be pretty clean (which i know does not tell us that it's not failed, but I thought for sure the system would be full of all sorts of sludge, rust, etc.) I have also opened up some of the strainers and they also look decent, just some rusty water that comes out.... The largest steam trap I found has a tag that reads "warren webster size 26-T drip trap". It is at the end of one of the steam supply runs and looks older than dirt. Since its in one of the large crawl spaces in the school, I am guessing it has not been maintained. Could a trap like that that is failed produce a good amount of steam? I am scared to open it up since I don't have any (and cant find any) parts for it. Not to mention I am scared to break it since it's pretty rusty. I have attached a photo.
I guess to sum this up, if you purchased a fairly large building with a steam system, what are the first things you would do / check for maintenance?
Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance
Tom
I have just closed on the purchase of a former elementary school. Its one level, approx. 23000 sq ft. It has 2 large boilers for heat and is a 2 pipe steam system. Thermostats / actuators are all pneumatic. The school has been maintained, but not in service for the last 7 years. Heat was maintained with sensors which turned the boiler(s) on at 55 deg. and off at 58
Siemens has installed some controls for day/night mode and a few other things which is for a separate thread.
I have already found and fixed a couple of air leaks, but the air compressor in the basement runs about every 13 mins for a few mins at a time. Correct me if I am wrong, but this seems like a lot. Compressor kicks on at 45psi, off at 70psi. Then the pressure is reduced to 25psi or 8psi, depending on if the system is in day/night mode.
My main concern right now is maintenance. I have not counted the steam traps, but I would guess there are approx 50. Mostly F&T and Thermostatic i believe. Also many strainers and controls for HVAC which I am assuming is due to the fresh air intake that is required for public schools. When I turn the boilers to "day" mode, steam pressure is maintained. Boilers kick on at 3psi and off at 7psi, which seems to be high based on what I have been reading. However, I have had trouble finding much info on commercial systems. I have not messed with pressuretrols or anything since I am scared that I will screw other parts of the system up.
Anyway - main issue is that I am blowing a decent amount of steam from the return condensate tank air vent. I am guessing this is from failed steam traps. I have done a ton of research on trying to find failed traps with no success. I have a thermal imaging camera and also purchased an ultrasonic tester. Both of these methods have not helped me to find a trap that is definitely failed. The traps we have opened up seem to be pretty clean (which i know does not tell us that it's not failed, but I thought for sure the system would be full of all sorts of sludge, rust, etc.) I have also opened up some of the strainers and they also look decent, just some rusty water that comes out.... The largest steam trap I found has a tag that reads "warren webster size 26-T drip trap". It is at the end of one of the steam supply runs and looks older than dirt. Since its in one of the large crawl spaces in the school, I am guessing it has not been maintained. Could a trap like that that is failed produce a good amount of steam? I am scared to open it up since I don't have any (and cant find any) parts for it. Not to mention I am scared to break it since it's pretty rusty. I have attached a photo.
I guess to sum this up, if you purchased a fairly large building with a steam system, what are the first things you would do / check for maintenance?
Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance
Tom
Tom_H
0
Re: counterflow steam problems
That's what Ipoorly described. I've done quite a few of these and it works well
