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whoops, it came out 2,1,3.
Re: Weil-McLain downfiring disagreement with my oil company
@jesmed1
You may be able to down fire to below 80%. The question is, is it practical to do that? How much time do you want a technician to spend doing this?
When you start changing the firing rate drastically (and below 80% is drastic) a lot of things change.
Changing the head on the burner and maybe the static plate if it has one
fooling with pump pressures
combustion chamber design
Also, with a water boiler lowering the firing rate will affect the water td or temp rise through the boiler unless the flow rate is monkeyed with.
changing nozzles.
The nozzle spray pattern is not always consistant with different nozzles of the same spray pattern. You may have to try different brand nozzles, hollow spray, solid spray or semi solid spray to determine the best combustion and that is after you determine the size you need to heat the building and determine that that firing rate will not condense in the flue passages.
I am not saying it can't be done. A good tech with a good combustion test kit can figure it out if he is willing to spend the time.
But it is a better job done in the MFGs lab
You may be able to down fire to below 80%. The question is, is it practical to do that? How much time do you want a technician to spend doing this?
When you start changing the firing rate drastically (and below 80% is drastic) a lot of things change.
Changing the head on the burner and maybe the static plate if it has one
fooling with pump pressures
combustion chamber design
Also, with a water boiler lowering the firing rate will affect the water td or temp rise through the boiler unless the flow rate is monkeyed with.
changing nozzles.
The nozzle spray pattern is not always consistant with different nozzles of the same spray pattern. You may have to try different brand nozzles, hollow spray, solid spray or semi solid spray to determine the best combustion and that is after you determine the size you need to heat the building and determine that that firing rate will not condense in the flue passages.
I am not saying it can't be done. A good tech with a good combustion test kit can figure it out if he is willing to spend the time.
But it is a better job done in the MFGs lab
Re: Weil-McLain downfiring disagreement with my oil company
I know you're absorbing some flak over this, but I have to agree with the others.We've all learned the hard way at one time or another.
I made the mistake of replacing my 30 year old boiler with a boiler of the same size having not checked my heatloss (and before I joined this learned forum).
My boiler was shipped with two nozzles - a 1.10 and 1.25. Well, this boiler short cycles like crazy so I contacted Slant and asked them what was the lowest I could fire the TR-30 that I had. They said 0.85 gph was the lowest so that's what I did.
It still short cycles and the only time it will run 25 straight minutes is on a very cold night with both zones calling at the same time.
Lesson learned.
Yes, I've done the heat loss calcs four different ways, and they all agree that our heat loss is 90-100MBTU/hr for a design temp of zero degrees (in Boston). This includes instrumenting the boilers with a data logger and measuring actual run-time during a zero-degree day, during which the boilers ran less than half the total time of one 24-hour day/night period. And that was with the boilers running at less than rated input.
So there's no doubt the boilers are massively oversized. I'm guessing someone used a "rule of thumb" decades ago and sized them at 40-50 BTU/sq ft, when our actual heat loss is around 18 BTU/sq ft. In fairness, it's a 100-year old house, so people assume it leaks, but we've had all the windows upgraded, and attic insulation blown in. So it's actually quite efficient, even for a modern house.
Anyway, we're stuck with what we have. I'll just run the boilers until they crap out, then get smaller ones that are properly sized.
jesmed1
1
Re: Weil-McLain downfiring disagreement with my oil company
So instead of a drizzle, you're looking for a downpour.jesmed1 said:PS, I'm looking into the cost of converting to natural gas using Carlin EZ Gas burners in place of the Beckett AFG's we now have, and today made me want to do that conversion more than ever.
I feel your pain but nobody wants to put their name on what you propose.
The boilers are oversized. Converting to downfired gas burners won't change that. And bring an umbrella because then you'll really see some condensation.
Was the building 3 times the size at one point? Why are those boilers so big?
HVACNUT
1
Re: Pressure relief valve won’t discharge water
Okay, lots of stuff. Just so I know, @STEVEusaPA, why is the feed/expansion tank a fiasco? Is it just the rust or is it in the wrong place or should be configured differently? Good idea to fix it while pressures’s down, please tell me exactly what’s bad so I can do that.
Yes, I now know the draft regulator is on the wrong place (should go on the side, I think). It’s just that there’s so much going on with this stuff I’ve been leaving that for later.
Good catch @WMno57, it’s not a water softener, it’s a neutralizer, for pH. We still have very hard water.
@psb75 regarding the check valve, is this thing (in picture below) a check valve?
Lastly, please tell me how to depressurize and repressurize. Close all ball valves from feed and to and from zones, isolating the boiler, and then open the drain valve? Purge somehow after refilling boiler from feed when done?
Before I do anything else, I’m going to go get a pressure gauge for the drain valve as per @EBEBRATT-Ed to see if there’s really pressure.
Re: Steam Plumbers westchester NY
I ended up hiring F DiGiacomo plumbing out of Tuckahoe to replace a failed independence boiler with a new steammax in a house we recently purchased in mamaroneck. John, the owner of F DiGiacomo, was very knowledgeable about low pressure steam boilers and was well versed in Dan Holohan's work. They only install Burnham boilers so if you are interested in a Peerless 63 series you may have to look elsewhere.
barretcf
1
Heavily Modified Mouat
Hello all,
Looked at what is left of a Mouat System today. It has a lot of issues and looking for some input from you all. Honestly, not sure we are even going to bid this job because of it.
On arrival the first thing that got my attention was the vent from the condensate pump is actually piped OUTSIDE! I asked the homeowner if they see steam coming out of that and they said it is so heavy at times its hard to use the entrance on that side of the home. Its been like that for years, and yes the boiler is rotted out.
One of the steam mains has an F/T at the end of it, the other does not. They both tie into dry returns and make their way to the condensate pump. The pressure-trols are cranked to the max as well... Just as you'd guess.
I want to eliminate the condensate pump completely. My question is, if I drip the dry returns down to the floor making them wet returns before getting to the boiler is that a viable option? There is a Hoffman #75 main vent at the end of both mains before they go there respective dry returns.
I have other info I can add, I just didn't want to add too much and muddy the waters even more.
Looked at what is left of a Mouat System today. It has a lot of issues and looking for some input from you all. Honestly, not sure we are even going to bid this job because of it.
On arrival the first thing that got my attention was the vent from the condensate pump is actually piped OUTSIDE! I asked the homeowner if they see steam coming out of that and they said it is so heavy at times its hard to use the entrance on that side of the home. Its been like that for years, and yes the boiler is rotted out.
One of the steam mains has an F/T at the end of it, the other does not. They both tie into dry returns and make their way to the condensate pump. The pressure-trols are cranked to the max as well... Just as you'd guess.
I want to eliminate the condensate pump completely. My question is, if I drip the dry returns down to the floor making them wet returns before getting to the boiler is that a viable option? There is a Hoffman #75 main vent at the end of both mains before they go there respective dry returns.
I have other info I can add, I just didn't want to add too much and muddy the waters even more.
Re: Flexible Gas Piping do's and dont's
Where's the regulator? There should always be 2# gas to the roof, regulated down at each unit
GroundUp
0
Re: Looking for 1 1/2 inch orifice plates
I'm working with a local shop to see if they can CNC them out of copper sheet. I've probably done a couple thousand radiators with orifices. I use them on just about all 2 pipe systems I work with to allow stage fired boilers or full mod input boilers resetting on outdoor temperature. They are certainly for 2 pipe only, though last year I did a one pipe system with them but I was able to repipe the supply to provide drips for each radiator supply.
