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Re: Dunkirk psb2 close piping
Even if it isn't space confined a drop header does a better job of separating the water from the steam than a directly connected header.
mattmia2
1
Re: Dunkirk psb2 close piping
With the 3-section, you can get away with one riser. BUT- that boiler has a 2-1/2" steam tapping. DO NOT reduce the size of this pipe. Put in a full 2-1/2" header.
The manual is here:
https://dunkirk.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/14683003-REV-P.pdf
The manual is here:
https://dunkirk.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/14683003-REV-P.pdf
Re: Dunkirk psb2 close piping
Here’s what happens when only one riser is used:
From “The Lost Art of Steam Heating”. Available in the bookstore on this site.
Ironman
1
Re: Dunkirk psb2 close piping
Thanks for the input Bob, that illustration clearly shows the extra materials and time are worth it. That leads me to the next question; would you always commit to 2 risers for dryer steam? If no, what factor determines your choice of 1 being sufficient, other than the iom specifies 2 risers for 5 sections and greater?The IO manual is the final word on wether or not you need 2 risers from the boiler.
The idea is to keep the steam flow rate as slow as you can, in order to keep the water in the boiler so only dry steam gets to the main(s). If you are confined by space, for example there is not enough room to go up 24" for the header, before you get to the main, then use a drop header. That means to go up the minimum 24" then two 90° elbows to point down so you can get the header below the main riser as shown in this photo
Re: Weil-McLain downfiring disagreement with my oil company
AFUE = Assumed Fictitious Useless Efficiency. 10% - 15% of AFUE is add on points for flue dampers, inducers, spark ignition, 2-stage etc. Has nothing to do with heat transfer. Is also based on the bogus combustion efficiency calculation we has been using for years. All the efficiencies are the same equipment at different gas pressures. Somehow I keep erasing my posts so I am going to separate them.
Re: Moline Steam System - Update
Update on this job:
We repiped the near boiler with a 4” drop header and Hartford loop, removed the trap and installed two Gorton #2’s as Frank suggested and replaced some rotted/clogged wet return pipes.
The steam piping will be cleaned up and insulated next week along with a vaporstat being installed.
We repiped the near boiler with a 4” drop header and Hartford loop, removed the trap and installed two Gorton #2’s as Frank suggested and replaced some rotted/clogged wet return pipes.
The steam piping will be cleaned up and insulated next week along with a vaporstat being installed.
There was a major water leak on some return piping inside of a wall and this is what I found when I opened the wall:
Apparently, someone thought that it was necessary to install drains on these return line so that the house could be winterized?
By putting the valves down at the bottom, the pipes filled with water and froze when the system was running. Don’t you love the Sharkbites?
I don’t know why someone would do this and I explained to the owner that the lines automatically drain toward the boiler.
The system is up and running and all radiators work except for one which may have a clogged return. It takes about 10 minutes for the vents to remove the air once the boiler is steaming.
The boiler block is a V905 with a V904 burner package. It’s sooted and needs some attention because it’s vented directly into a masonry chimney that needs to be lined.
By putting the valves down at the bottom, the pipes filled with water and froze when the system was running. Don’t you love the Sharkbites?
I don’t know why someone would do this and I explained to the owner that the lines automatically drain toward the boiler.
The system is up and running and all radiators work except for one which may have a clogged return. It takes about 10 minutes for the vents to remove the air once the boiler is steaming.
The boiler block is a V905 with a V904 burner package. It’s sooted and needs some attention because it’s vented directly into a masonry chimney that needs to be lined.
Ironman
5
Re: Troubleshooting In An Antique Building
Thanks for the story Dan! I wish I could have been there with you seeing and exploring this magnificent piece of history. BTW, learning as well!
KAGM
1
Re: Towel Warmer - Steam Valves Question
I would use traps to keep things consistent. Everything else in the building has traps.
And, I never herd of a vacuum pump being used with an orifice system.
And, I never herd of a vacuum pump being used with an orifice system.
Re: Why are there 2 circulators on this?
I didn't post this because it's so hard. I posted this because I think it's so odd. I wouldn't have done it like that. Would you? If you answer Maybe then tell me why since Im interested in learning. In the above situation I became more interested with "why" rather than "how". If I was the homeowner I wouldn't spend money on a new tank, coil, and radiators then when my circulator stops working say F it and use an electric space heater for a year. Odd. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly plumber. So I posted this to get everyone's take on it. Ed's photography tips alone are worth their weight in gold.
THAT IS EXACTLY THE WAY I WOULD HAVE DONE IT!
Modifying a home with an existing radiator design heating system, with a different design heating system, rarely has a good outcome. Baseboard radiators in a series loop connected to the branch tee of a former radiator is a common mistake made by inexperienced heating professionals. The radiators may have a flow rate of as little as 1/4 of a gallon per minute flow. The baseboard series loop works better with a 4 gallon per minute flow rate.
By taking the supply branch of a disconnected radiator and running 1/4 GPM thru the 40 ft of baseboard back to the return of the disconnected radiator equals NO HEAT in the baseboard loop. To solve that, you operate the baseboard on its own separate loop with its own separate circulator operated by its own separate thermostat. It is basic Hydronics 101 (if there was a Hydronics University)
After new circulator and some remodeling you might find this mistake.
You would fix it this way
I believe you might find this booklet very helpful. I used it to teach a one day seminar. Most of the technicians that attended found lots of good information in there https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/108119-Reference Guide.pdf