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Re: Help Please! Old 2-pipe System
I'm going out on a limb a bit, and maybe you've already taken care of this -- but the Dunham residential systems were and remain exceedingly sensitive to excess steam pressure. In theory the air elinator trap float should close the air vent -- which, incidentally, must be the ONLY air vent on the system -- when the pressure in the boiler gets too high to allow condensate to flow back to the boiler. This will allow pressure from the boiler to build in the dry return, and hold the water level where it belongs. If that float doesn't close properly -- or if it does, but there is another vent ANYWHERE on the system, ... repeat: ANYWHERE -- even on a radiator! ... that won't happen, and the boiler water will back out into and flood the dry return and, very likely, the returning steam main.
This sounds to me very like what you are experiencing.
There are three things to do. First, the boiler must be controlled by a vapourstat, not a pressuretrol, and set to cut out at not more than 10 ounces. This must be verified by an accurate low pressure gauge. Second, go out in the system and, if you find a vent anywhere, remove and plug it. Third, ensure that the float in the air eliminator is free and that the vent opening on the eliminator is really closed when the float is up
Come to think of it, there's a fourth: if you find a steam main somewhere out in the wilderness which terminates, there must be a crossover trap there to the adjacent dry return (and a drip from both the man and dry return to a wet return at floor level) -- and that crossover trap, and the crossover shown in the diagrams near the boiler (which I think you said was missing?), must be operating properly.
If the Dunham air check is in place on the air eliminator, then the system may be able to produce a vacuum of considerable depth -- in which case the check valve on the return must really work.
This sounds to me very like what you are experiencing.
There are three things to do. First, the boiler must be controlled by a vapourstat, not a pressuretrol, and set to cut out at not more than 10 ounces. This must be verified by an accurate low pressure gauge. Second, go out in the system and, if you find a vent anywhere, remove and plug it. Third, ensure that the float in the air eliminator is free and that the vent opening on the eliminator is really closed when the float is up
Come to think of it, there's a fourth: if you find a steam main somewhere out in the wilderness which terminates, there must be a crossover trap there to the adjacent dry return (and a drip from both the man and dry return to a wet return at floor level) -- and that crossover trap, and the crossover shown in the diagrams near the boiler (which I think you said was missing?), must be operating properly.
If the Dunham air check is in place on the air eliminator, then the system may be able to produce a vacuum of considerable depth -- in which case the check valve on the return must really work.
Re: Help Please! Old 2-pipe System
Where does the pipe to the "inlet" of the air eliminator go?
I don't know specifically with the Durham system, but usually that sort of connection is to the steam main to inject pressure in to the returns to let the water return to the boiler if the pressure differential is too high. If you keep the pressure under 10 oz it shouldn't be a problem. Do you have a low pressure gauge that can accurately measure the pressure on the main?
A stopcock is just a plug type of valve, it opens and closes with 1/4 turn.
I don't know specifically with the Durham system, but usually that sort of connection is to the steam main to inject pressure in to the returns to let the water return to the boiler if the pressure differential is too high. If you keep the pressure under 10 oz it shouldn't be a problem. Do you have a low pressure gauge that can accurately measure the pressure on the main?
A stopcock is just a plug type of valve, it opens and closes with 1/4 turn.
mattmia2
1
Re: Dip Tube Replacement on a Weil-Mclain Gold Plus 60
I made an edit to my last comment: I just wonder if one was a little handy and was able to get a piece of PEX tubing and heat the end a little then make it flare at the end, if that would work just fine for the time left on that tank?
Re: 100 years ago today-- heating fuel choices
In the early 1970's many schools and hospitals that did not have access to natural gas were looking for a cheaper fuel for their steam boilers than #2 fuel oil. The company I worked for in Pittsburgh, Pa. came up with the solution, bituminous coal. We converted many of these boilers to coal using either a ram or screw stoker. The screw stoker was used on smaller boilers while the ram stoker was used on larger units. Most of the conversions were done on horizontal fire tube boilers. To reduce the need for manual tube cleaning, soot blowers were added. Most of the time a brick arch was added to the firebox above the burning coal to enhance the burning of that coal. Other devices were added to help produce a clean burn so smoke from the stack or chimney was almost non-existent. Imagine, burning soft coal with little or no smoke.
Re: Don’t know what to say?
I wonder if this might work just as well?
But you could not clock as many hours as this
So somebody made some extra money here. And they are probably very proud of their work.
But you could not clock as many hours as this
So somebody made some extra money here. And they are probably very proud of their work.
Re: heat energy purge benefits by running circ pump a little longer?
There are several ways to do it. One thread on the topic is here:
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1788675#Comment_1788675?
The Beckett AquaSmart is one particular control that has this function built in. I installed one on my boiler:
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/176551/nice-job-beckett
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1788675#Comment_1788675?
The Beckett AquaSmart is one particular control that has this function built in. I installed one on my boiler:
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/176551/nice-job-beckett
Re: Plumbing archaeology
Tetraethyl lead is added to increase the octane rating cheaply and somewhat lubricate the valves. Neither of those things would be helpful in a jet engine and are likely to foul things. You are likely exposed to more lead from the dust by roads from about 50 years of adding lead to motor vehicle fuel.
mattmia2
2
Fish House in Berkeley
I was here yesterday flushing air out of the radiant (polybutylene). It's pretty wild and very well done.
Re: 100 years ago today-- heating fuel choices
In 1922, my village voted 177 to 48 to install it's first power plant.
$11,405 for the building and $6,041 for a 1 cylinder 38 KW engine and switchgear. That was a "Hothead" diesel that could be started with the "shotgun shell" explosive charge if needed.
It was still in the building in 1968 and used as a "peaker" to get thru the noon hour.
The plant ran only 18 hours a day.....why would you need electricity at night when you were in bed?
Rates ranged from 7 cents to 17 cents per KWH, but by 1925 rates went up to 10 to 18 cents/KWH, there was a minimum of $1.50 per month.....no small amount in the 1920-30's
In the 1920's a 10,000 gallon train load of fuel oil cost 2.75 cents per gallon.
Today my electric rate is 16 cents/KWH......think about what fuel oil costs today.
Adjusting for inflation, electric rates have gone down from 1920.
We get our power from the grid and thru various agencies that buy on a daily basis.
So the source is hydro, coal, and Nuclear.
We just are in the process of adding another diesel generator, 2.1 MW....a lot for us.
We will lease 1.8 MW of it to the power pool for their stand by use.
This puts our plant up to 3.35 MW for our load of about 2.0 MW.
In the 60's we were considered very backward to keep our power plant as all other small town scrapped theirs and connected to the grid. They now envy us when the grid might go down for 1 day to 1 week.
In a blackout we can be back on line in 30 minutes.
$11,405 for the building and $6,041 for a 1 cylinder 38 KW engine and switchgear. That was a "Hothead" diesel that could be started with the "shotgun shell" explosive charge if needed.
It was still in the building in 1968 and used as a "peaker" to get thru the noon hour.
The plant ran only 18 hours a day.....why would you need electricity at night when you were in bed?
Rates ranged from 7 cents to 17 cents per KWH, but by 1925 rates went up to 10 to 18 cents/KWH, there was a minimum of $1.50 per month.....no small amount in the 1920-30's
In the 1920's a 10,000 gallon train load of fuel oil cost 2.75 cents per gallon.
Today my electric rate is 16 cents/KWH......think about what fuel oil costs today.
Adjusting for inflation, electric rates have gone down from 1920.
We get our power from the grid and thru various agencies that buy on a daily basis.
So the source is hydro, coal, and Nuclear.
We just are in the process of adding another diesel generator, 2.1 MW....a lot for us.
We will lease 1.8 MW of it to the power pool for their stand by use.
This puts our plant up to 3.35 MW for our load of about 2.0 MW.
In the 60's we were considered very backward to keep our power plant as all other small town scrapped theirs and connected to the grid. They now envy us when the grid might go down for 1 day to 1 week.
In a blackout we can be back on line in 30 minutes.
JUGHNE
8
Re: 100 years ago today-- heating fuel choices
Local (town) electric plants had to be 60CPS AC close-enough for electric clocks to keep good time. (Quartz comes later.) When my dad was in high school he had the gofer job at the power plant. The Chief Engineer had a very fine pocket watch, which he checked every day against Railway Time. In the power house was a good AC wall-clock, which followed the errors of the electric plant. He'd check one against the other and trim the steam-engine governor so they agreed every day.
Here's 1919. Coal getting hard to get, they were burning light oil (kerosene) to stay warm.
This idea of stop-starting a fire on electrical contact was radical. As you appreciate if you ever managed a coal or even wood fire. Solid fuels take a long time to go cold and a long time (and puffing) to hot-up again.
Here's 1919. Coal getting hard to get, they were burning light oil (kerosene) to stay warm.
This idea of stop-starting a fire on electrical contact was radical. As you appreciate if you ever managed a coal or even wood fire. Solid fuels take a long time to go cold and a long time (and puffing) to hot-up again.
PRR
4