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Re: working with ThermoFin, and shower wall radiant
Gordy, we used a rigid fiberglass for support to insure good contact. Important to insulate behind the radiant source, otherwise you WILL get gains into areas that may not need or want it, even inside walls. Recommend doubling R value in outside walls (use rigid foam).
In my professional opinion and personal experience, radiant walls are one of THE most overlooked opportunities for radiant retrofit in this radiant world. It is much less noticeable to lose 1-1/2" of wall space then it is to lose 1-1/2" to 2" of floor to ceiling height. It works better than a floor as it pertains to the human comfort factor because your body has the ability to absorb more radiant energy than it would from a floor, and due to the fact that you are not in contact with the surface, the wall can generate more BTUH than a floor can. Remember, its about human comfort FIRST, and building conditioning SECOND. We need to change our way of thinking in this regards.
Try it out on your own home first, and once convinced, it will make you a believer and make convincing your customers will be getting the information from a first hand, experienced source.
Floors have their applications (bathrooms, swimming pools, etc) but walls AND ceilings can be done for less money and deliver just as good a radiant experience as floors can.
If we as an industry are going to push the ball forward, we are going to have to start thinking outside of the typical hydronic box.
Thanks for the excellent post HR. You are truly a radiant pioneer.
ME
In my professional opinion and personal experience, radiant walls are one of THE most overlooked opportunities for radiant retrofit in this radiant world. It is much less noticeable to lose 1-1/2" of wall space then it is to lose 1-1/2" to 2" of floor to ceiling height. It works better than a floor as it pertains to the human comfort factor because your body has the ability to absorb more radiant energy than it would from a floor, and due to the fact that you are not in contact with the surface, the wall can generate more BTUH than a floor can. Remember, its about human comfort FIRST, and building conditioning SECOND. We need to change our way of thinking in this regards.
Try it out on your own home first, and once convinced, it will make you a believer and make convincing your customers will be getting the information from a first hand, experienced source.
Floors have their applications (bathrooms, swimming pools, etc) but walls AND ceilings can be done for less money and deliver just as good a radiant experience as floors can.
If we as an industry are going to push the ball forward, we are going to have to start thinking outside of the typical hydronic box.
Thanks for the excellent post HR. You are truly a radiant pioneer.
ME
Re: Basic energy flow question...
I'd like to know exactly HOW they measure the cores temperature, seeings as how the temperature is hot enough to vaporize pretty much any temperature sensing devices that I am aware of... And just who the heck are "they"... THEY are everywhere... :-)
ME
ME
Re: Hiring Mechanics... Is there anyone out there at all these days?
Whats up everyone. First time posting. I saw this in my email and had to jump in. I am 34 years old and have been plumbing since 02. It has been the best decision I ever made. I spent several years goofing off in college at my parents expense like an ahole. Came home got lucky with a plumbing job from my uncle. Got my masters license 2 years ago. Honestly going thru night school I was the youngest back 10 yrs ago. When I do my CEUs I still am the youngest by many years. For some reason younger guys do not see plumbing as a viable future. Wow are they wrong. I have many friends that have great jobs after college, I still bring home more money. I guess it was just the way my father raised me to have a strong work ethic. I never played video games or had the internet and all the tech kids have now. Played all sports, built crap around the house, stuff like that. Society has screwed the future of hard working mechanics. You dont see kids out playing building forts. I recently took a photo of 7 kids on a bball court playing on their cell phones. Basketball sitting next to the hoop. Its horrible.
I recently dragged my 26 year old brother into this. He had no mechanical ability until working with me. Now he loves this. ****, you should have seen his face the first time I let him solder.
We need to get the youth in here.
For all you old timers out there still kicking it daily in the plumbing trenches, my hats off to each and everyone of you. It is hard work and appreciated by me your fellow plumber.
I recently dragged my 26 year old brother into this. He had no mechanical ability until working with me. Now he loves this. ****, you should have seen his face the first time I let him solder.
We need to get the youth in here.
For all you old timers out there still kicking it daily in the plumbing trenches, my hats off to each and everyone of you. It is hard work and appreciated by me your fellow plumber.
Re: Yet another poor install
Home inspection is racket. Giving the buyer a false sense of security for 4-5 hundred dollars.
Gordy
5
Re: Radiant design service suggestions - between joist retrofit
As to the OP, you should thoroughly understand the difference between open and closed systems as well as the difference between a hot water heater and a heating boiler. Not all people selling these systems do.
Zman
5
Re: Customer wants to buy material
No advice, just my experience. I've been asked that question quite a bit. In the past, I may have gone along with it a couple times but no more. Too many grey areas and too many possibilities for issues no matter how well its been spelled out in the contract.
What happens if the customer supplied boiler has a part failure within the manufacturer's warranty? Who pays for the diagnosis? Who pays to run for the part? Who pays for the labor to replace the part? I know my answer but the customer won't like my answer even though they agreed to the arrangement beforehand.
What happens if the customer supplied boiler has a part failure within the manufacturer's warranty? Who pays for the diagnosis? Who pays to run for the part? Who pays for the labor to replace the part? I know my answer but the customer won't like my answer even though they agreed to the arrangement beforehand.
Re: Primary Secondary Pipe Sizing
I like the idea of using the terminology of "boiler loop" and "system loop(s)". I think its easier for people new to the concept to wrap their heads around.
Re: First Snowmelt Project: Near Boiler Schematic
Ross,
You have a nice design going here.
I have a couple thoughts....
On the near boiler piping, the LLH is not really doing anything. The heat exchanger has a known, constant resistance and required flow rate. It is your hydraulic separator. If you add the pool, the same thing will be true.
With a firetube boiler, you could actually get rid of the heat exchanger as well. You would have to reconfigure things a bit to make sure you maintain the minimum flow.
On the tubing layout, getting the tubing in the center of the slab rather than at the bottom make a big difference. The only reliable way I have found to do that is to uses rebar on chairs. Otherwise the knucklehead concrete guys will push the mesh to the bottom and nothing is gained.
I like the detail for the stairs with the tubing on the nose. Again, good luck with the concrete guys. If it where mine, I would put about twice that much heat in the stairs. Make sure to get the treads on the nose, then get more in anyway you can. There is so much surface area on stairs you can't throw too much heat at it. At least (2) 250' loops.
Carl
You have a nice design going here.
I have a couple thoughts....
On the near boiler piping, the LLH is not really doing anything. The heat exchanger has a known, constant resistance and required flow rate. It is your hydraulic separator. If you add the pool, the same thing will be true.
With a firetube boiler, you could actually get rid of the heat exchanger as well. You would have to reconfigure things a bit to make sure you maintain the minimum flow.
On the tubing layout, getting the tubing in the center of the slab rather than at the bottom make a big difference. The only reliable way I have found to do that is to uses rebar on chairs. Otherwise the knucklehead concrete guys will push the mesh to the bottom and nothing is gained.
I like the detail for the stairs with the tubing on the nose. Again, good luck with the concrete guys. If it where mine, I would put about twice that much heat in the stairs. Make sure to get the treads on the nose, then get more in anyway you can. There is so much surface area on stairs you can't throw too much heat at it. At least (2) 250' loops.
Carl
Zman
5
Re: Hiring Mechanics... Is there anyone out there at all these days?
There are background checks and there are background checks. There are also reports of a lot of bogus info coming out of the providers thereof.
Drug testing and drug problems also have a somewhat tenuous connection. I'd far rather work with someone who smokes a joint every weekend than someone who's drinking out of a flask every breaktime.
Drug testing and drug problems also have a somewhat tenuous connection. I'd far rather work with someone who smokes a joint every weekend than someone who's drinking out of a flask every breaktime.
SWEI
7
Re: Hiring Mechanics... Is there anyone out there at all these days?
We're not covering new ground here. There's no need to re-invent the wheel. Simply follow the examples of the most successful companies. It's not always about raises. Why not reward an employee that just saved you $2000, one time. Call him/her in and give them a few bucks extra in their check. Maybe give them tickets to a football game, or, heaven-forbid say thank you.
If an employee gets to the point that they feel they are not being recognized....you better hope they move on, because they are done. Nothing will change that. No monies, after the fact will change it either. At that point, you have created a cancer in your company.
No one, ever, busts **** with no incentive and "be thankful you have a job" certainly is not one.
If an employee gets to the point that they feel they are not being recognized....you better hope they move on, because they are done. Nothing will change that. No monies, after the fact will change it either. At that point, you have created a cancer in your company.
No one, ever, busts **** with no incentive and "be thankful you have a job" certainly is not one.
Paul48
6