Best Of
Re: System 2000, nearly double the cost of Weil McLain, is it worth it?
I'll keep it simple guys, 48 years in the field, installation and 24/7/365 service. We installed EKs for 15 years, over 1000, maybe 2000. 100% customer satisfaction. When you deal with oil customers on a service contract you hear it if ANYTHING is wrong. Even replacements of fairly modern low mass boilers (WM468, Peerless ect03,4, et al), have had substantial fuel savings. Tech support has always been excellent, though rarely needed. These are the facts men.
Re: System 2000, nearly double the cost of Weil McLain, is it worth it?
The only issue that I see here is the entity that quoted a ridiculous EK price. My experience has shown that customers recoup the price differential, depending on circumstances of course, in 2 to 4 years. After that is money in the bank and a good selling point for a future home buyer.
Re: Lochinvar WB80 not lighting, many new parts already. SOLVED
I prefer to Test and not Guess. Every time you change a part you could be introducing a new and/or different defect into the situation. This can be expensive, frustrating and time consuming.
Its funny how the data sheets don't provide useful data. Coil V1 and V2 what is their resistance ? A useful tidbit for a field tech.
Going by the current draw I would suspect the resistance of each coil V1 or V2 to be in the 100 Ohm ballpark, V1 (pins 1, 2) and then V2 (pins 4, 5). I would measure their resistance first. Also Measure each of the 4 pins to the metal body of the gas valve, it should be infinite, open (OL, on some meters) like when the probes are not in contact with each other or anything else that has resistance.
Then take the circuit board out of the plastic case and plug it into the gas valve making sure it can't short against anything metal. This may provide easy access to test the voltage right at the Gas valve connector pins or at the other side of the board where the connector is soldered to the circuit board. Then with everything connected up measure the DC voltage across V1 (pins 1, 2) and then V2 (pins 4, 5) during an ignition attempt. As mattmia2 stated it should be a DC voltage, in a similar scenario my meter reads about 15 % lower measuring Pulsating DC or Vrac than the actual AC voltage on the wiring harness side of the little circuit board.
Re: One year old Williamson-Thermoflo heat exchanger failure
I went back to this furnace today. First thing I did was measure TESP with just the fan running. I measured 0.53". It was better than I expected. Pressure drop through the evaporator coil was low.
Then I went to measure temperature rise. The burner is equipped with a Carlin 70200 primary control and I noticed the burner was running for 5 minutes before the fan and limit control brought the blower on! So I drilled a hole in the jacket to measure temperature next to the fan and limit helix . The "fan on" setting on the fan and limit control was factory set for 110⁰. The blower didn't come on until the limit control was at 150⁰ and my thermometer was measuring 170⁰. After 13 minutes of operation my temperature rise was 63⁰.,
At this point I was satisfied that a defective fan and limit control was the reason for the heat exchanger failure. I repeated my test and recorded a video of the malfunction. I called the Williamson-Thermoflo tech support agent and informed him of my findings.
He continued to insist that the chimney was the problem and on top of that he said he never, ever saw a heat exchanger fail where the cracks are in my picture. He said he would need to see my a piece of paper go through the cracks or pictures of open holes before he could confirm that the heat exchanger has failed. He said the fan and limit control malfunction could not cause that. I insisted that my combustion analysis and pictures prove the heat exchanger failed.
Fortunately the good folks at the warranty department at Williamson-Thermoflo have provided my company a written confirmation that the warranty claim has been approved at this point.
Despite the way they insisted that a "cold chimney" was the culprit the installation instructions did not state that the furnace can't be installed on an exterior masonry chimney.
Re: System 2000, nearly double the cost of Weil McLain, is it worth it?
@riny, thank you for your comments. Please PM me or call us at 908 735-2066 to connect you with your territory manager to facilitate work with your contractor; Energy Kinetics should not be 2X the cost of a WM.
@jesmed1, take a look at the Department of Energy lab studies here which analyses actual field performance with details as to why savings are much greater that shown with AFUE alone for Energy Kinetics low mass boilers with thermal purge. Field tests from the National Oilheat Research alliance showed average savings of 25% when upgrading older systems, with some savings exceeding 40%.
We typically receive very high marks for customer service and contractor support, so I'm not sure where @Long Beach Ed is coming from (thank you for your post @HVACNUT !).
Sorry for the short reply, I only had a minute.
Best,
Roger

Re: Replumbing: Solder or Threads for Ball Valves
So then 2 male adaptors and a sweat union……..could be more than the ball valve itself. But I understand looking to the future.
But there are brass compression X male thread. I use them on pressure relief valve drop pipes to avoid the torch for replacement/removal of the PRV.

Re: Seeking Engineer for Off-Grid Religious Facility Heating in the Mountain States
Solar is a potential option, however, the design of the structure was not set up for passive. Active solar has its own power challenges and more importantly, this building is being built in an area that sees minus 20 or more on many winter days. Solar will only be helpful during the shoulder seasons and there are complications in doing solar thermal without power.
The initial design we proposed involved Danfoss non- electric thermostats and zone valves, radiant floor heating in concrete, heated by a gasification wood boiler to use the abundant beetle kill pine, and two PV powered circulators backed up by battery that were mounted outside with the boiler. Super simple and effective.
Re: System 2000, nearly double the cost of Weil McLain, is it worth it?
Thank you all, this thread has been incredibly helpful and I don't want to start an argument! :-)
I'm going to get additional estimates for both options (@Roger I will get in touch with you for a referral), and I like everything I'm hearing about the EK. Given the state of the house though, and a limited budget, it sounds like it might make more sense to save money on the boiler and make the biggest possible investment in the insulation / airflow improvements. But I'll need to really work the numbers and then decide.

Re: Observations on my old, rotted out wet return.
Add me to the list of those who don't like long meandering wet returns-especially in black pipe.
Circulators with IFC internal flow checks, some discovery.
I built this clear pump display to try and observe the small spring checks in action. The IFC fit right into the discharge of the circulators. They have a low "pop" pressure, around 1/2" psi.
First off you want to have some sort of strainer, filter, dirt separator in the piping. It doesn't take much more than a grain of sand to hold them open. See the particles on the paper towel.
On my first run I had some of the clear plastic machinings in the piping and it held the check completely open immediately.
Next the pump and circuit needs to be 100% air free. On first start the air entrained in the fluid would cause the check to bounce, flutter, chatter, pick a word. In this short demo loop it took less than a minute for the air separator to clean the fluid of all air. The check operated smoothly from then on.
Troubleshooters tell me they have replaced these damaged checks after 3-5 years of service. I suspect the checks chatter themselves to an early death.
The check is in a turbulent condition this close to the impeller. Most any check manufacturer asks for several pipe diameters distance between a pump discharge and the check.
All in all, properly protected and commissioned I do see the value in these spring type, conical seal type of checks in circulators.
