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Steam device to be identified
Hello.
I'm working in Paris, France. There, we have few old steam central heating system still working in some old housing building.
Few people here know well about these systems.
Would you be able to identify the device that is surrounded in the enclosed picture?
When the maintener increases the steam pressure, the steam goes out of this device from the top connection as if it was a kind of safety valve but it does really not look like the one I am used to see. Is it one?
FYI decades ago, it was a coal boiler.
I apologise for my weak English.
Jérémie
Re: Radiant heat with oil? Can it be done?
As I noted above, short cycling is not a concern with oil burners. They're commonly configured to maintain boiler temperature when idle with zero flow. With a fifteen gallon boiler and a 20F swing, a 100K BTU/hr boiler only needs to run for about 90 seconds, they seem to be able to do this for decades without ill effect. Any heating load is going to give longer run times.
Where you typically run into trouble with small loads — and this is not specific to oil burners — is with the distribution, specifically getting a circulator to work properly both with tiny loads and the full capacity of the boiler when it's needed. The solution is primary/secondary piping or a similar variant.
Re: Radiant heat with oil? Can it be done?
On buffer tanks, if you will permit me. And boilers. The problem is a practical one: matching the boiler output to the system input requirements. This is a common problem with steam systems, as modulating the temperature of the emitters is, while not impossible, impractical in most cases. It is much less of a problem with hydronic heat, as it is entirely feasible to modulate the emitter temperature to anything needed to match the load, and thus modulate the system power requirement from the boiler.
So now we need to consider how to modulate the boiler power output.
Many modern gas boiler designs can and do modulate their power output over quite wide ranges — as much as 10 to 1 — while under continuous fire, but with varying firing rates and corresponding air flow rates and, at the same time, maintain decent efficiency. With intelligent design it is not particularly difficult to manage boiler input and return temperatures at values which best suit the boiler, while maintaining the circulating temperature as desired.
Thus a modulating gas fired boiler will only be producing more power output than the system requires at very low power requirements — although even there there may be advantages in using a buffer tank.
The real need shows up with oil fired boilers, which are remarkably difficult make with a modulated power output: they are either on or off (note that his commentary is dealing only with residential and smaller commercial boilers, and is not applicable to larger, especially power, boilers, which can and do modulate).
If you cannot reduce the steady firing rate and hence power output of the boiler, the only other way to match the power output to the load is to turn the boiler on and off, with the duty cycle such as to match the average power output over time to the demand. Thus, for example, if the power output of the boiler is 100,000 BTUh, but the demand is only let's say 75,000 BTUh, you would run a 75% on duty cycle — which could mean anything from 90 seconds on in 120 minute cycle to 45 minutes on in a one hour cycle.
The function of a buffer tank is simply to provide water hot enough for the system use during the times when the boiler is off. The tank size will determine two things: first, the variation in water temperature available to the system as the boiler cycles on and off (which, using a thermal mixing valve, can be reduced to zero or nearly so provided the buffer tank water is always hotter than the desired system temperature) and second, relatedly, the total length of one cycle — with a larger buffer tank allowing both longer cycles and more even temperatures.
Now longer cycles are desirable (or very very short cycles, but that's another and more complex topic) as they allow the boiler to operate more efficiently, as well as causing somewhat less wear on the boiler components.
It must be added that the thermal inertia of the emitters is also a factor which enters into the judgement as to how big a buffer tank is optimal for the job.
Unfortunately, I do not know of any "rules of thumb" which are generally applicable, although Caleffi through its Idronics research and publications, has done a great deal to fill this gap; there are many variables which must be considered, some of which are related to the overall system, some related to the variation in power required, and some simply related to economics.
As a general thing, however, it is my opinion that for an oil fired hot water system, or a non-modulating gas fired system, a buffer tank is a required part of a competent design.
Re: Cheap, Easy, And Invisible DIY Solar Thermal?
I regret that I don't know of any software — free or otherwise! — which is particularly intended for analysing passive solar designs. We did have software which we used when we were playing with — decades ago! — but it was hardly stuff which was generally available! (machine coded to run on 8086/8087 microcomputers! We ran it on may AT&T computer and on Bill's Rainbow… those were the days…)(those were also the days when I was using a Commodore 64 and a telephone dial-up modem in a chain to run a CDC 6600 which in turn controlled a couple of Cray supercomputers… ).
Do look at the agricultural field in general. Farmers have been working with passive solar for decades… indeed centuries — and there is a lot of knowledge and hardware (and I think some software, though I'm out of that field now) out there which is generally ignored by everyone else.
Re: Air Vent at boiler. Necessary with Air Sep?
Like.
This will remove air from the system as the system operates with the help of the laws of Physics. But each radiator convector must have at least some water in it so that water can flow and can absorb the air into the water and carry it to the hottest, lowest pressure location where there is an air separator.
I like your diagram
Re: Air Vent at boiler. Necessary with Air Sep?
@EdTheHeaterMan revised the plan with your suggestions.
What do you think?
Re: Viessmann vitodens 200 wb2 11-44 boiler problems
this is the instlal sheet that would come with a replacement lgm29
I am pretty sure they still had an older form of what they call lambda pro today, on those boilers. so the gas valve is most likely non-adjustable. but you would want to make sure both units were set to the same fuel type. Also there is a water pressure sensor inside the unit which can shut it down if water pressure is too low.
Re: Viessmann vitodens 200 wb2 11-44 boiler problems
The donor control board may have been configured differently (DIP Switches and electronically stored parameters).
Re: Air Vent at boiler. Necessary with Air Sep?
Depends on the circulator location. If you have the air sep on the supply (HOT) side of the boiler piping and the circ is pumping away from the air sep, AND you attach the Ex-60 expansion tank and boiler fill valve at that same point, you will actually eliminate the air problem. It all has something to do with the Physics of Water and Boyle's Law of dissolved gasses. Long story short… Hot water and low pressure will release dissolved air. Put a vent there and all the air in the system will get absorbed in the water and released at the air sep. (ask me how I know this)







