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Re: Boiler with compression tank, want to add B&G Airtrol fitting.
The date code on that ATF-12 indicates that it was made in May of 1998, curios as to where you purchased it? Certainly not new and no warranty. That expansion tank, if no one has mentioned it, is not ASME, it is a standard non-code tank with no provision for a liquid level site glass. Looks to be about 15 or possibly 24 gallons. Piping cold water make up directly into the boiler is not a good idea because of possible thermal shock or even condensation of the combustion gases. Follow the Airtrol fitting installation instructions. Close the service valves on either side the pressure reducing valve (PRV) once the system is filled. Best piping practice is to have one on either side of the PRV and a bypass. Only open them if you have done work on the system and it need to be re-pressurized. Otherwise you could flood your basement if you develop a leak. System pressure will be the static height of the piping system measured from the PRV to the bottom of your top floor radiation plus about 4 PSI to maintain a positive pressure in your radiators.
nekdahl
2
Re: Need boiler recommendations
With two boilers, you can get two of different sizes. So smaller one handles cool temperatures, the larger handles colder temps, and combined handles the coldest temps.
An indirect is fine but marginal. If you have a new water heater that’s sufficient now, wait until that goes.
Re: Intermittent pilot ignition control - replacing cable/wires?
Hello @hurt_happens,
If I had it apart I would definitely freshen up all the relay(s) connections and the spark coil too. Possibly the 1/4" external connection terminals if they looked suspicious.
Easy and inexpensive repair if you can.
Poor solder connections are way more prevalent than you think. And that is how they often fail, good for years, then intermittent, then total failure. Age does not make them better. Vibration and thermal cycling does not help either. Inspect them all with magnification. Remove the old solder and re-flow with new solder. The solder connections of the pins that come out of the base of Relays are notorious for failures and not just with HVAC equipment.I also have a hard time understanding how soldering points could be the cause, since it worked for so long and is now only working intermittently.
If I had it apart I would definitely freshen up all the relay(s) connections and the spark coil too. Possibly the 1/4" external connection terminals if they looked suspicious.
Easy and inexpensive repair if you can.
109A_5
1
Re: Tie two programmable thermostats in parallel to tie two heat zones together
Eric, your are correct as it relates to a sensor for the low loss header - by 100E I am referring to the 100 family of boilers. E indicates the current control platform - there are (6) boilers in 100E family (2 Kombis (KE) and 4 Heat Boilers (HE). The 100 is Viessmann's "base" model for wall hung modulating condensing boilers. I hate that term because the 100E family does a lot; that being said, the 200E does more (and you pay more for it...)
Your thought process is good, but the value of zoning is just that. If your goal is to prevent the boiler from tripping the high limit (and that's a good goal - this should not be a regular event) I would go to weather compensated operation: The boiler will have to be recommissioned (not a difficult process) and you'll need the outdoor sensor install (it comes with the boiler) Make sure it is installed on the North or North West wall. Be sure it's away from things like dryer vents, etc (anything that can skew it's accurate temperature sensing). Set a curve with a high limit under 180 (the curves are adjustable so you can fine tune as you go). Check out Viessmann North America YouTube and search for heating curves - you'll find some well done short videos.
I believe you posted a picture on another thread - it's a very nice job. The pipe work is clean and well done. That being said, I think the boiler is oversized. From the picture, there are 3 3/4" loops on the heating side - 199,000 btus is a lot to unload into that system (The only way to know for sure is an accurate heatloss). One of the features of the 100E is the ability to derate the boiler on the heating side; I have mixed feelings on this - the boiler should be sized by way of the heatloss; but look at your Installation and Service Manual page 63 - System Configuration/Boiler Address 596.0. The proper derate would of course be based on an accurate heatloss, which would have made this suggestion unnecessary. It's a way to get a little closer to a load match.
Your thought process is good, but the value of zoning is just that. If your goal is to prevent the boiler from tripping the high limit (and that's a good goal - this should not be a regular event) I would go to weather compensated operation: The boiler will have to be recommissioned (not a difficult process) and you'll need the outdoor sensor install (it comes with the boiler) Make sure it is installed on the North or North West wall. Be sure it's away from things like dryer vents, etc (anything that can skew it's accurate temperature sensing). Set a curve with a high limit under 180 (the curves are adjustable so you can fine tune as you go). Check out Viessmann North America YouTube and search for heating curves - you'll find some well done short videos.
I believe you posted a picture on another thread - it's a very nice job. The pipe work is clean and well done. That being said, I think the boiler is oversized. From the picture, there are 3 3/4" loops on the heating side - 199,000 btus is a lot to unload into that system (The only way to know for sure is an accurate heatloss). One of the features of the 100E is the ability to derate the boiler on the heating side; I have mixed feelings on this - the boiler should be sized by way of the heatloss; but look at your Installation and Service Manual page 63 - System Configuration/Boiler Address 596.0. The proper derate would of course be based on an accurate heatloss, which would have made this suggestion unnecessary. It's a way to get a little closer to a load match.
Redbaran
1
Re: Tie two programmable thermostats in parallel to tie two heat zones together
Somewhere there must have been a crossed wire -- in communication, not your wiring (at least not yet)..
A thermostat -- or at least the red and white wires -- is a switch. Nothing but a switch -- no power is supplied by the thermostat to anything -- it's just turned on or off. It is either open (no call for heat) or closed (call for heat). There is absolutely no reason why two thermostats can't be paralleled to the same relay coil. Now if the thermostats are also powered -- that infamous C wire -- they must be carefully wired to that transformer so that they really are all in parallel. But if they are self powered (such as batteries) there shouldn't be a problem.
Wired properly, the relay won't get twice the signal -- it will just see a closed switch through one or the other or both, as the case may be.
A thermostat -- or at least the red and white wires -- is a switch. Nothing but a switch -- no power is supplied by the thermostat to anything -- it's just turned on or off. It is either open (no call for heat) or closed (call for heat). There is absolutely no reason why two thermostats can't be paralleled to the same relay coil. Now if the thermostats are also powered -- that infamous C wire -- they must be carefully wired to that transformer so that they really are all in parallel. But if they are self powered (such as batteries) there shouldn't be a problem.
Wired properly, the relay won't get twice the signal -- it will just see a closed switch through one or the other or both, as the case may be.
Re: Intermittent pilot ignition control - replacing cable/wires?
If you take a jumper and ground the combination ignition/sense wire it will do the same thing as unplugging it, it will disrupt the flame rectification signal and the control shouldn't open the main valve at startup and it should shut down the main valve if you ground it with the burner firing.
mattmia2
1
Re: Steam heat system fitting
I’ve seen this in an old book. Can’t recall which one. It’s a specialty tee that allows the steam to go to two floors. The object was to lessen the amount of returning condensate in either riser from the tee.
An Important Skill for Teaching Tradespeople
An Important Skill for Teaching Tradespeople
Props can come in handy when you're trying to explain mechanical concepts.
Re: Help draining a old steel expansion tank.
So I just read an article about NOT having auto air bleeders on a system using a bladerless tank. I DO have one of those on a high point of the boiler a little before the return. Is this the cause of my issue?Yes. You do NOT want to bleed air out of the system at the radiators. You want the Airtrol funnelling the air back to the tank. Your auto bleeder will eventually bleed all the air out of the system and make the expansion tank get waterlogged, just like you now have.
jesmed1
2
Re: This a bull head t?
The vents are in the second pic. Two radiator traps are piped between the ends of the steam mains and the dry return. We call these "crossover traps" since they route air from the steam mains into the dry return. The large device in that pic is a "vent trap" which may or may not have a vacuum check screwed into the top- this is where the air actually leaves the system. From what I can see this is probably a Dunham Vapor system.
