Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Best Of
Re: CH set to 170 boiler doesn't reach it
Check the sensors with an ohm meter, you could have one out of range.
The troubleshooting pages explain how to get into installer mode to read any faults. The control will know why it didn’t reach the operating condition. Could be too high of a delta, high flue temperature or other issues.
You either have to sit in front of it, catch it in the act, could be the call for heat drops off before it hits the programmed temperature?
or pull the info from the data logging function deep in the control menu, the history mode.
The troubleshooting pages explain how to get into installer mode to read any faults. The control will know why it didn’t reach the operating condition. Could be too high of a delta, high flue temperature or other issues.
You either have to sit in front of it, catch it in the act, could be the call for heat drops off before it hits the programmed temperature?
or pull the info from the data logging function deep in the control menu, the history mode.
hot_rod
1
Re: Suspected leak from radiator steam pipe elbow joint
Remember this is a steam pipe. As the steam leaks out, it is lighter than air and will go UP before it hits the wood floor or metal pipe and condense on that surface. If enough condensation accumulates, that can cause a drip of water to stain that pipe as water is heavier than air and gravity will cause the water to drip DOWN. The space behind the basement drywall and the floor cavity ware super humidified for years since that was a very small steam leak.
Which reminds me of a story:
This church in Cape May needed a new steam boiler and I got the job. Removed a Mills that was well over 70 years old. Replaced it with a Weil McLain 78. After operating for the first month, I got a no heat call one Sunday morning. When I arrived the water feeder had stopped feeding water. The display meter read 999. I reset it, water flowed, and they had heat. But 999 gallons in one month was a gallon or two more than I expected for that amount of run time.
On Monday afternoon I returned to find where all this water was going. As it turns out there was dry return that came from the south hall wing of the system. That return was buried under sand in a very tight crawlspace. once I located the return pipe is discovered that 60% of the bottom ot that steel pipe was missing. Just rotted away. I also noticed that the floor supports and the floor boards for the office and bathrooms just above that buried pipe were all pressure treated lumber. That told me that this return pipe was leaking steam for some time.
You see, I figures that the floor in the Pastor's office was getting a little spongy and that one of the members of the church, probably a carpenter or builder, offered to fix the problem. Once the carpet was removed, they found all this rotted wood. The bad wood was removed and replaced with new lumber. That church was over 70 years old, so if it took 70 years for that wood to rot out, then regular lumber would last 70 more years , Right?
But it did not last that long. and in a few years the floor was rotting away again. Wow, that is odd. Well we know how to solve that problem. We will use pressure treated lumber. That stuff won't rot away any tome soon. Some time after that, this HVAC/Boiler guy happened to stumble across this leaking return pipe that was allowing the steam from that pipe to find its way thru the sand and super humidify the tiny crawlspace above it. Once the return pipe was replaced the boiler only used less than 1 gallon per month for make up water. I think that amount of make up water is acceptable.
The rotted wood above the elbow in the first picture reminded me of the Pastor's pressure treated floor.
Which reminds me of a story:
This church in Cape May needed a new steam boiler and I got the job. Removed a Mills that was well over 70 years old. Replaced it with a Weil McLain 78. After operating for the first month, I got a no heat call one Sunday morning. When I arrived the water feeder had stopped feeding water. The display meter read 999. I reset it, water flowed, and they had heat. But 999 gallons in one month was a gallon or two more than I expected for that amount of run time.
On Monday afternoon I returned to find where all this water was going. As it turns out there was dry return that came from the south hall wing of the system. That return was buried under sand in a very tight crawlspace. once I located the return pipe is discovered that 60% of the bottom ot that steel pipe was missing. Just rotted away. I also noticed that the floor supports and the floor boards for the office and bathrooms just above that buried pipe were all pressure treated lumber. That told me that this return pipe was leaking steam for some time.
You see, I figures that the floor in the Pastor's office was getting a little spongy and that one of the members of the church, probably a carpenter or builder, offered to fix the problem. Once the carpet was removed, they found all this rotted wood. The bad wood was removed and replaced with new lumber. That church was over 70 years old, so if it took 70 years for that wood to rot out, then regular lumber would last 70 more years , Right?
But it did not last that long. and in a few years the floor was rotting away again. Wow, that is odd. Well we know how to solve that problem. We will use pressure treated lumber. That stuff won't rot away any tome soon. Some time after that, this HVAC/Boiler guy happened to stumble across this leaking return pipe that was allowing the steam from that pipe to find its way thru the sand and super humidify the tiny crawlspace above it. Once the return pipe was replaced the boiler only used less than 1 gallon per month for make up water. I think that amount of make up water is acceptable.
The rotted wood above the elbow in the first picture reminded me of the Pastor's pressure treated floor.
Re: New Heat Pump with Oil Furnace Losing Prime ONLY after outside air temp goes below 32
Has this installation been passed by the local building inspector?
CLamb
1
Re: Do you prefer the wool felt or the white fiber heating oil filter cartridge?
I upgraded to spin-ons about 6 years ago. I'd never go back. Quick, clean, and apparently filters better.
Re: New Heat Pump with Oil Furnace Losing Prime ONLY after outside air temp goes below 32
Is the evaporator and oil filter in the cabinet directly under the burner?
If so (and try to follow the roller coaster), does the oil line run from near the bottom of the tank, out the top of the tank, then over and down about 5 ft. before it goes under the home. Then there's a horizontal run of unknown length under the home before it turns upward into the home. The oil line then continues upward above the height of the furnace, then another horizontal run of unknown length before it turns back downward, through the furnace compartment and into the evaporator compartment below the burner. Then a short horizontal run and after the oil filter it turns upward again into the burner compartment where it rises above the fuel pump, does a quick 180° and down into the fuel pump.
Do I have that right or am I trippin'?
If so (and try to follow the roller coaster), does the oil line run from near the bottom of the tank, out the top of the tank, then over and down about 5 ft. before it goes under the home. Then there's a horizontal run of unknown length under the home before it turns upward into the home. The oil line then continues upward above the height of the furnace, then another horizontal run of unknown length before it turns back downward, through the furnace compartment and into the evaporator compartment below the burner. Then a short horizontal run and after the oil filter it turns upward again into the burner compartment where it rises above the fuel pump, does a quick 180° and down into the fuel pump.
Do I have that right or am I trippin'?
HVACNUT
2
Re: Hydronic Radiant Floor HELP "Taco X-Pump Block & Taco Radiant Mixing Block"
The X block has a plate heat exchanger inside to isolate two seperate fluids. Possibly you have glycol loops?
The other block is a temperature mixing system, an injection mix module, basically
The other block is a temperature mixing system, an injection mix module, basically
hot_rod
1
Re: Question about nozzle size and my Hydrostat high/low settings.
Leave it where it is if you have comfort and hot water to your satisfaction. If you want to get bold, you can try setting high limit to 165° or even 160° if you want to test the limits of your system. What will happen? Nothing! You will not notice any difference because at that lower temperature the radiators will just take a little longer to heat the rooms and satisfy the thermostat. (and longer cycles are good). The only difference might happen when it gets very cold outside. If you notice that when the outside temperature drops below a certain number the thermostat can no longer keep up, that is because 160° radiators do not put enough heat in the home fast enough to keep up with how fast the heat is leaving the house.
So i have had it at 140 low and 170 high for about 14 months and i get enough heat and hot water so should i just leave it? Some are saying to put up to 190, and a low of 160 it gets confusing with different opinions? Now i cant change my differential on my hydrostat its set at 10 for my set up, now if i could change it would that give me better performance/less oil usage?
Here is an example. @ 160° your radiator might have a heating capacity of 480 BTU/h and a 10 ft radiator will then give off 4800 BTU/h.
If your room needs 5200 BTU/h on the coldest day of the year, then the temperature in that room will be fine until the outdoor temperature drops to say 16°F. from that point on the radiator will put out the same amount of heat and the circulator pump will run non stop. as the temperature drops to 15° then 14° the indoor temperature will drop from the 70° thermostat setting down to 69° the 68° and so on as the outdoor temperature drops. This is when you will discover that 160° radiator temperatue is insuffifient,
At that time you can increase the radiator temperature by setting the high limit to 160° and the problem will be solved. The same radiator with 165° water might have an output of 5000 BTU/h or maybe 5200 BTU/h at 170°. When the installer sets up your system, he does not know how the water temperature in the radiators will react on the coldest day of the year. He can only guess that if it worked with the old boiler or old control, that it should be fine wit the new control if set at the same setting. If he does not get a service call after the control was installed "Not enough heat" then they are done and a job well done. No additional service needed. If he gets that service call during a very cold event, then all he needs to do is to adjust the temperature on the limit 10° higher and apologize for the mistake of setting the limit too low.
As far as the adjustable differential on the low limit is concerned, I always set that at 10°. That is for hot water priority (leaving the space heating circulator off if the boiler water is too low to offer enough heat for the DHW coil). That will not effect the burner cycles during a call for hot water.
Re: Question about nozzle size and my Hydrostat high/low settings.
The boiler settings are fine. Leave it where you have it.
You realize you can't take full advantage of the Hydrostat when using a tankless coil. You can't use the economy setting, and you can't set it up for cold start like you could if it had an indirect water heater.
As far as firing rate, the WBV-3 offers two with the Beckett AFG.
The lower firing rate is shown with a different air tube, head, and using the Low Fire Baffle.
A tech might be able to install a .75 nozzle @ 140 psi for a .89 GPH input with your setup. We used to use a .75 80°A with a low fire baffle and an F6 head on the Peerless JOT-3 because the flue passages were so tight.
As long as the tech is able to achieve proper draft, a 0 smoke, and all combustion within range. It might take some T&E to get it right, but if you're willing to pay for their time, then go for it.
You realize you can't take full advantage of the Hydrostat when using a tankless coil. You can't use the economy setting, and you can't set it up for cold start like you could if it had an indirect water heater.
As far as firing rate, the WBV-3 offers two with the Beckett AFG.
The lower firing rate is shown with a different air tube, head, and using the Low Fire Baffle. A tech might be able to install a .75 nozzle @ 140 psi for a .89 GPH input with your setup. We used to use a .75 80°A with a low fire baffle and an F6 head on the Peerless JOT-3 because the flue passages were so tight.
As long as the tech is able to achieve proper draft, a 0 smoke, and all combustion within range. It might take some T&E to get it right, but if you're willing to pay for their time, then go for it.
HVACNUT
3
Re: New Heat Pump with Oil Furnace Losing Prime ONLY after outside air temp goes below 32
I've probably serviced well over a hundred mobile homes (eastern Long Island) with the Miller/Nordyne downflow furnace. I think I only came across one that had an oil filter outside. And I've come across a few that were piped inside the burner compartment, and it's super tight.
They should be burning Kero so the pump strainer is usually sufficient.
They should be burning Kero so the pump strainer is usually sufficient.
HVACNUT
3
Re: Question about nozzle size and my Hydrostat high/low settings.
The spray pattern of a nozzle should be matched to the air pattern from the burner. On older oil burners (pre 1960 models) that do not have the flame retention design of your Beckett burner, Burner service personnel were trained to look at the shape of the combustion chamber and the air handling parts of the burner. By matching the oil particles to where the air firm the burner ends up in the fire box, You can get a clean (smoke free) flame with less excess air.
The flame retention air pattern makes the oil droplets move to conform with the high velocity air pattern. It actually causes the oil droplets to follow into a low pressure area right next to the turbulator and get caught up in the air pattern that causes the flame to burn within 1/8" of the turbulator. That is called "flame retention" because the flame looks like it is retained on the actual turbulator.
So, if the higher velocity air is moving the oil droplets out of the actual spray pattern, why does it matter if one uses a 45° or 60° or even a 90° angle? And what does the solid or hollow spray pattern do for the flame? Basically it is the same idea. There are 3 air patterns in every flame retention burner design. The center hole where the oil spray is introduced is the primary air that picks up the oil. The slots in the flame retention ring enter the chamber at a lower pressure in a swirling pattern that causes the oil to circle back to that lower pressure area and get caught up in the swirling air pattern. This is the most efficient and hottest way to burn oil. If that is all the air that is needed for complete combustion then the burner's job is done. That might be on firing rates lower than .75 GPH.
If the nozzle is introducing more oil than the primary and secondary air offers, the excess oil will need additional air from the burner. That is where the third air outlets come in. Those oil droplets that burn further out in the chamber will use the third air flow opening. That happens around the outside of the retention ring. The more fuel the larger the opening.
Depending on how that air pattern ends up inside a combustion chamber will determine what GPH, angle and patterns works best in any particular boiler or furnace. It is all figured out by the manufacturer during R & D testing. Why the .85 45° nozzle work better in the Weil McLain WGO boiler when the same burner uses a .85 80° nozzle in a Burnham boiler all depends on the way the air and oil move in the firebox or that particular appliance.
So when a technician selects a nozzle that is different from the previous one or the one that came with the burner, they may have a good reason OR it might just be that they did not have the right one with them on the truck. SO... once you find the best nozzle for your system. Then purchase a box of them for future use.