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Help choosing a combi boiler please
Hello,
I am a new homeowner, bought a home in the bare bones stage of renovation. The house is a 620 sq ft 1920s cottage about 100 miles north of NYC in NY.
I am a new homeowner, bought a home in the bare bones stage of renovation. The house is a 620 sq ft 1920s cottage about 100 miles north of NYC in NY.
I am installing ~450 ft of radiant floors using quik trak over the existing floor in 3 roughly 150ft loops. It will be a 3 loop manifold with single zone closed loop glycol mix heating using 5/16 pex.
I am trying to work with a plumber/HVAC guy but the available companies are extremely expensive and the reputable smaller guys are extremely busy and I’m trying to keep plugging away at it while I wait for some pro help… trying to get this all done asap so I can get my tile work done in the next month before it gets too cold …
Finally to the point, I’d like to order my propane combi boiler but I’m having a hard time getting any response or advice as to what size I need.. my calculations give me that I need a roughly 32,000 BTu supply but also I plan to use a glycol mix would reduce my btu by like 30% so I’m thinking I’ll need a roughly 100k BTU unit for my small single occupant house?I don’t see many coming in much less than that anyways…
Combi boiler would also supply 1 bathroom, kitchen sink and clothes washer with hot water, there’s no reason to have any of those running more than 1 at a time …
thanks for any feedback, good, bad or indifferent
Lisa
ps also wanted to add that I plan to also install a mini split unit as back up so the house won’t be entirely dependent on the radiant floors to keep it at like 75° hopefully…
thanks for any feedback, good, bad or indifferent
Lisa
ps also wanted to add that I plan to also install a mini split unit as back up so the house won’t be entirely dependent on the radiant floors to keep it at like 75° hopefully…
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
It was $1280 for a peak month last season - I can't wait to see the bills THIS year. Natural Gas. We use for cooking, dryer and hot water too. 9 of us live here.
The damper on one of the two registers in my room was closed. The levers look like those old skeleton keys - a big metal circle handle that is either vertical or horizontal. When I was examining, I noticed one was one way and one was another so I turn it and heat came out.
Ducts do look mid century. Boiler is a CRANE circa 1960 ish apparently, too, so makes sense. We do have an old porcelain "oil burner emergency shut-off" switch at top of basement stairs.
The damper on one of the two registers in my room was closed. The levers look like those old skeleton keys - a big metal circle handle that is either vertical or horizontal. When I was examining, I noticed one was one way and one was another so I turn it and heat came out.
Ducts do look mid century. Boiler is a CRANE circa 1960 ish apparently, too, so makes sense. We do have an old porcelain "oil burner emergency shut-off" switch at top of basement stairs.
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
I think that ductwork was a replacement of the original ductwork that had outside air intakes around the middle of the 20th century to remove the outdoor air intake.
If the damper is closed you get almost no heat, the radiator has to be able to pull heat through it by gravity to heat. If you kook down through the grate, can you see the element? Can you get a picture?
If the damper is closed you get almost no heat, the radiator has to be able to pull heat through it by gravity to heat. If you kook down through the grate, can you see the element? Can you get a picture?
mattmia2
1
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Perspective, folks. Big old houses do burn fuel. If we didn't pre-buy and thus spread the cost out over all 12 months, there would be a couple of months in the middle of the winter when we'd spend at least that if not more per month. There really isn't any good way, either, to avoid it. Even a very tight modern house with HRVs and all the toys may use 25 BTUh per square foot at design conditions. A somewhat less tight older house could easily be half that again. Cedric's home -- hardly a model of modern insulation -- peaks out at somewhere around 33 BTUh input, for instance.
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Based on your location, size of house, etc., I think $1,280 per year for gas is not unexpected at all. (What else, if anything, are you using gas for, besides space heating?)
From what I see in your pictures, your system is not older than your stated 50 years, probably less. This winter, your costs will go up because of increased fuel prices - unless you do something very major to reduce your heat loss. Probably too late, this year?
From what I see in your pictures, your system is not older than your stated 50 years, probably less. This winter, your costs will go up because of increased fuel prices - unless you do something very major to reduce your heat loss. Probably too late, this year?
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
@mattmia2 - yes - dampers with levers in basement just below each heat-feed register. And there are valves just outside the ductwork for the radiator/coil inside of each. Again, this ductwork seems to be self-contained in each room, as if to rely on flow of air within the room. I can locate no fresh air intake. This house was built 1906. The ductwork is in no way connected to any other room. This is the setup in four of the common space rooms on the main floor only, as well as the vestibule and main hallway
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Grew up in a big stone house -- Philadelphia main line. We had those ducted radiators in the public areas of the first floor -- there were dampers to control the mix of outside air. The place was built in 1921 and I was told the outside air blend was because of the 1918 pandemic .... originally ours was coal and would have never been off so there was no drafts. The cases and dampers were much heavier looking metal .... that looks like regular ductwork. Ours would really pump it out ..... start looking for dampers
TAG
1
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Br Jamie makes a very good point about the in floor convectors. Unfortunately, from the look of it in the one picture posted the ductwork looks pretty well intact and sealed, so they might be difficult to get to. Are you certain that the valves are open to the living room convectors? My experience with these types of convectors is that due to them hanging from the basement ceiling they are prone to shifting and leaking which results in their being turned off.
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
I wonder who or what is in the attic?
More to the point -- it would be an excellent idea to get at the radiators or whatever in those underfloor units, and clean them. Thoroughly. Try a shop vac for starters, and then brushes. You will be amazed at what's in there -- and you are depending entirely on the air getting warm and flowing freely through them for heat. That will also give you some idea how big they really are, and thus how much heat you can expect out of them.
Improving the envelope in those cold rooms can't hurt, either.
As to the mud room, how does hot water get to those?
This thing can be made to work, and you don't need to pay for a new car to make it work -- but it is going to take some serious work with balancing, which means you may need some relatively minor pipe work and some balancing valves.
More to the point -- it would be an excellent idea to get at the radiators or whatever in those underfloor units, and clean them. Thoroughly. Try a shop vac for starters, and then brushes. You will be amazed at what's in there -- and you are depending entirely on the air getting warm and flowing freely through them for heat. That will also give you some idea how big they really are, and thus how much heat you can expect out of them.
Improving the envelope in those cold rooms can't hurt, either.
As to the mud room, how does hot water get to those?
This thing can be made to work, and you don't need to pay for a new car to make it work -- but it is going to take some serious work with balancing, which means you may need some relatively minor pipe work and some balancing valves.
Re: Options? 5500 Sq Ft Victorian Mansion w/50+ year old system
Yeah, a guy once mentioned it had been a gravity system. When the circulator went out and we had no heat back in early March though, the electrician who was here said that it might be able to work as a gravity system temporarily but the hot water never rose more than 3 feet up from the boiler!
It looks like the basement ducts are unique to each room. My room, the former "sitting room" has a row of five windows and has two heat feed registers - one right under window one the wall and one under window five in the wall. Then I have a large return in the floor. When I look under my room though, these ducts are just unique to my room. It seems like the flow of air, which is hot but barely moving - is reliant on the envelope of my room and natural air flow? I do have 12' ceilings too and my room is about 250 sq ft. I do have storm windows on my windows. My room tends to be how I like it in the winter. I do wonder about the ducts though - they have never been cleaned nor checked in the 6 years I am here. Could the coils in them be seriously clogged an impeding the natural flow?? The one photo originally attached shows one part of my ductwork under my room
Now in our living room/sun room which is may 1500 sq ft - we have two 4'x4' French windows single pane! And four sets of 6' x 6' stained glass/glass French windows that used to open French style outwards but were long painted over. This room has two feed and two return registers - all in the floors and all 3'x1'. There is also an antiquated aux electric heater over one of the registers. This room is COLD in winter - perhaps we could fashion some seasonal plexiglass/acrylic storm windows??
There is a dining room and den that both have registers under the windows - strangely, the den has the best heat air flow - it has one large 5'x8" feed and smaller returns on either side.
Another problem room, besides that living room/sunroom, is the kitchen/mudroom - open to each other. There was some Reno in the 50s/60s because we strangely have a radiator in main kitchen (it gets HOT), then two barely working baseboard heaters in mudroom (seemingly pointless). The kitchen has horrible windows too - those Florida/tropical style crank out ones opposite of French style. These could use a removable/temp storm window too!! Kitchen always cold too!.
____________
One thermostat located on 2nd floor at top of staircase. In the coldest months, we tend to need to keep it at 70. Upper floors are toasty but all have storm windows and radiators. At setting of 70 though, the kitchen/mudroom and living room/sunroom will only get up to 62-64
I do not see any fresh air intake anywhere. Like I said, in my room, the ducting is unique to my room alone. I would love to open the ducts to check the coils and clean them out! See the one photo for the duct under my room.
As far as improving the envelope on the ground floor, with a 1500 sq ft room full of huge single pane windows including two working French style ones that leak like crazy, is fashioning some type of removable/temp flex storm window a good idea? Weatherstripping/plastic has not helped really. I know heating costs are projected to go up 25-30% and with $1200 winter bills, I just want us to take preventative measures AND we want comfort in these rooms that can't seem to heat up.
When we moved in, we did find two rather ornate radiators in a cedar closet on the top floor. They are both 4' tall with legs. Not sure where they had been. In two 2nd floor rooms that both have curved walls of 5 windows, they have a complete stretch of curved radiators.
There is no real attic space besides a crawl space accessed by a hatch. No one has ever gone up there.
When the circulator went out back in early March - a guy came by and said "oh my god - this system is crazy - just to drain it! He was talking with the electrician who was here and I recall him saying "days and days to go through" and "$20,000 at least"
It looks like the basement ducts are unique to each room. My room, the former "sitting room" has a row of five windows and has two heat feed registers - one right under window one the wall and one under window five in the wall. Then I have a large return in the floor. When I look under my room though, these ducts are just unique to my room. It seems like the flow of air, which is hot but barely moving - is reliant on the envelope of my room and natural air flow? I do have 12' ceilings too and my room is about 250 sq ft. I do have storm windows on my windows. My room tends to be how I like it in the winter. I do wonder about the ducts though - they have never been cleaned nor checked in the 6 years I am here. Could the coils in them be seriously clogged an impeding the natural flow?? The one photo originally attached shows one part of my ductwork under my room
Now in our living room/sun room which is may 1500 sq ft - we have two 4'x4' French windows single pane! And four sets of 6' x 6' stained glass/glass French windows that used to open French style outwards but were long painted over. This room has two feed and two return registers - all in the floors and all 3'x1'. There is also an antiquated aux electric heater over one of the registers. This room is COLD in winter - perhaps we could fashion some seasonal plexiglass/acrylic storm windows??
There is a dining room and den that both have registers under the windows - strangely, the den has the best heat air flow - it has one large 5'x8" feed and smaller returns on either side.
Another problem room, besides that living room/sunroom, is the kitchen/mudroom - open to each other. There was some Reno in the 50s/60s because we strangely have a radiator in main kitchen (it gets HOT), then two barely working baseboard heaters in mudroom (seemingly pointless). The kitchen has horrible windows too - those Florida/tropical style crank out ones opposite of French style. These could use a removable/temp storm window too!! Kitchen always cold too!.
____________
One thermostat located on 2nd floor at top of staircase. In the coldest months, we tend to need to keep it at 70. Upper floors are toasty but all have storm windows and radiators. At setting of 70 though, the kitchen/mudroom and living room/sunroom will only get up to 62-64
I do not see any fresh air intake anywhere. Like I said, in my room, the ducting is unique to my room alone. I would love to open the ducts to check the coils and clean them out! See the one photo for the duct under my room.
As far as improving the envelope on the ground floor, with a 1500 sq ft room full of huge single pane windows including two working French style ones that leak like crazy, is fashioning some type of removable/temp flex storm window a good idea? Weatherstripping/plastic has not helped really. I know heating costs are projected to go up 25-30% and with $1200 winter bills, I just want us to take preventative measures AND we want comfort in these rooms that can't seem to heat up.
When we moved in, we did find two rather ornate radiators in a cedar closet on the top floor. They are both 4' tall with legs. Not sure where they had been. In two 2nd floor rooms that both have curved walls of 5 windows, they have a complete stretch of curved radiators.
There is no real attic space besides a crawl space accessed by a hatch. No one has ever gone up there.
When the circulator went out back in early March - a guy came by and said "oh my god - this system is crazy - just to drain it! He was talking with the electrician who was here and I recall him saying "days and days to go through" and "$20,000 at least"