Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
If our community has helped you, please consider making a contribution to support this website. Thanks!
Best Of
Re: Anyone ever seen this style steam rad?
@SKYPAINTER
One should think about the rebound effect of optimisation.
read about the Jevons paradox and rebound effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect_(conservation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazzoom–Brookes_postulate
I'll play devils advocate here. We Americans preach to one another about the need for high efficient everything, from our electric appliances, automobiles and most especially our heating/cooling systems.
One should think about the rebound effect of optimisation.
read about the Jevons paradox and rebound effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect_(conservation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazzoom–Brookes_postulate
Sylvain
2
Re: Skunk smell...google search says it could be a refrigerant leak. Is methyl mercaptan in refrigerant?
You probably just have a skunk. I am 99% sure they don't add that to any refrigerant in the US, because it will corrode the AC system. Possibly its used in other places in the world? Possibly added for use in industrial applications? Never heard of it in residential refrigerant, though it is added to give an odor to fuel, like propane etc. Even refrigerant grade propane doesn't get this additive as it will destroy the AC system. Possibly someone else can chime in to say otherwise, I'd like to see more info if thats the case. Many outlets report incorrectly about HVAC issues so it wouldn't surprise me if they got this one wrong, especially since neither can name a single refrigerant that has this added.
GGross
1
Re: Steam pipes/test?
A @delcrossv said, leaks in steam piping are vanishingly rare. They do happen -- but not often. As an example, I curate (and live in) a rather large place (horsehair plaster and all) with steam -- and in all the years working with it have had only one very minor leak, in a dry return elbow, other than in a wet return.
Radiators do leak on occasion between sections. But again, they are out in the open and usually pretty obvious -- and not that hard to fix.
Now wet returns are another matter -- they can leak and, over time, do. However, they are down there at floor level in the basement -- never in the walls unless someone got creative and fancied up the basement --so the leaks are obvious and, more to the point, easily repaired.
Proper pressure testing just isn't feasible. A steam system, properly installed and maintained, runs on less than a pound of pressure -- often only a few ounces -- and pressure testing at that level of pressure is just not reliable. So don't worry about the pressure testing. Indeed if this us a two pipe system, about half the pipes run with no pressure at all.
A more general caution, since you are only recently moved into the house: a house of that age or older is likely to have been very well built indeed. Most of the home improvement and remodelling tips you will encounter are either not applicable or will make things worse (replacement windows is a common mistake, for instance). So... have patience. Find out what is really needed, and don't rush into "improvements". Most of them aren't.
Radiators do leak on occasion between sections. But again, they are out in the open and usually pretty obvious -- and not that hard to fix.
Now wet returns are another matter -- they can leak and, over time, do. However, they are down there at floor level in the basement -- never in the walls unless someone got creative and fancied up the basement --so the leaks are obvious and, more to the point, easily repaired.
Proper pressure testing just isn't feasible. A steam system, properly installed and maintained, runs on less than a pound of pressure -- often only a few ounces -- and pressure testing at that level of pressure is just not reliable. So don't worry about the pressure testing. Indeed if this us a two pipe system, about half the pipes run with no pressure at all.
A more general caution, since you are only recently moved into the house: a house of that age or older is likely to have been very well built indeed. Most of the home improvement and remodelling tips you will encounter are either not applicable or will make things worse (replacement windows is a common mistake, for instance). So... have patience. Find out what is really needed, and don't rush into "improvements". Most of them aren't.
Re: Vacuum Breaker Termination Height
I would put the VB or check valve above the top of the coil . I like putting them up high to keep them out of the water. Tunstall assoc. is a good source, but I usually just use a Y pattern check valve.
Re: Vacuum Breaker Termination Height
As a general rule, the vacuum breaker's location doesn't really matter.
So long as the internal pressure is lower than atmospheric, atmospheric pressure will push open the VB or swing check valve to equalize the pressure on either side.
If there is liquid present above the VB, that liquid's head column could affect how the internal pressure balances out. In that case, put the VB above the expected liquid level so the pressure equalizes out to atmospheric.
If equalizing time is a factor, research the CFM capacity of the VB. IME, VBs are somewhat specialized and have lower flow rates than an equivalent swing check valve.
So long as the internal pressure is lower than atmospheric, atmospheric pressure will push open the VB or swing check valve to equalize the pressure on either side.
If there is liquid present above the VB, that liquid's head column could affect how the internal pressure balances out. In that case, put the VB above the expected liquid level so the pressure equalizes out to atmospheric.
If equalizing time is a factor, research the CFM capacity of the VB. IME, VBs are somewhat specialized and have lower flow rates than an equivalent swing check valve.
Pumpguy
1
Re: Fixing two pipe system
I'm guessing someone didn't like the wet returns on the floor a couple boilers ago and removed them incorrectly. Which way do the dry returns slope now?
mattmia2
1
Re: Fixing two pipe system
Thanks Jamie, I would install the loop seals at the ends of the mains and then come back up and tie them into the dry returns? I plan to separate the mains if we repipe the boiler.
Fixing two pipe system
I am working on fixing a two pipe system. There is a lot wrong with it. There is steam in the returns very soon after it starts making steam. Some radiators were added and traps were never installed on them but there is also steam coming back through a pipe that comes off the header and ties directly into the return. The only original radiators are on the second floor. They all have traps but they also have vents. The vents look like they were added at some point because they are in the top corners rather than where they’re supposed to be. I know I need to add traps to the radiators that don’t have them. I need to add a lot more venting. I think I need to get rid of the radiator vents. I’m not sure what to do at the end of the mains. They’re definitely not original. There are two mains and two dry returns. They took the ends of the two mains and tied them in together and ran a 3/4 drip to one of the dry returns with no trap. I can’t figure out what it originally did. I don’t see any evidence that they went to wet returns. Maybe the connected to the dry returns through traps? There are crossover traps that look original. Would they have needed the crossover traps if the mains tied into the dry returns through traps? What they originally did I guess is less important than what I need to do with them now which I can’t figure out. I’ve attached pictures of the ends of the mains and near boiler piping. I am thinking maybe there was a boiler return trap that was removed at some point and they thought they needed to tie the header into the dry return. I’ve attached a picture of this and I am planning to get rid of that pipe. I’ll also add a vaporstat. I also have a video of the whole system but I don’t know how to post it. Thanks 
Re: Primary , secondary loop design
The primary loop is the loop that has the expansion tank in it. Sometimes it is the boiler loop, sometimes the system loopSgtdng said:It’s a noritz combi boiler currently and noritz finally decided to ship me a new boiler since the heat exchanger blew all to hell. The current piping on the primary is 3/4 and the secondary is 1 inch. Noritz was trying to tell me a couple years ago that the piping was all wrong causing the combustion issue that I was having at the time . I wanted them to send me just a heating boiler, but they said they don’t have one just for heating and said they had to send me another combi boiler. The reason I originally bought a combi was so I could add domestic water to the shop. I have not been able to get domestic water from the house, down to the shop. So I am only using it for heat till I can possibly get a shallow point well done.I believe the pump should go closer to the zone manifold, but the expansion tank should still be at the highest point. ( noritz wants it lower) with the exception of the valves, expansion tank, safety valve, and pump, what else really needs to be in this loop?Here is a screen shot of the manifold they are sending me, a shot of the generic design they sent.
hot_rod
2
Re: Punctured Kitec Pex-Al-Pex lines - best path forward?
You need to find the Kitec specific coupling. Or a transition coupling to go to cts size Pex.
You might shop e bay, someone has a stash of them.
However, the thin o rings on Kitec fittings would go bad after storing them for years. They crack and crumble when you try to use them. You need two good soft o rings for them to seal. And chamfer the ID of the tube will to insert the fitting, with some lube. Or you roll the o ring out of the groove.
I scrapped a 5 gallon bucket of old Kitec fittings once the word got out about the dezincification issues. Plus all the o rings were cracking.
Maybe shop some of the online Euro sites, I think a 7mm compression fitting may work. PAP compression fittings will have a brass, not plastic ferrule. A standard pex compression fitting will not work on PAP, even if you find the correct ID and OD.
Caleffi still offers PAP compression fittings, but I’ve checked in the past, the Kitec is just too large of an OD to fit
If the company I mentioned above has 3/8 couplings, that is where I would got. Tolerances are correct and you get fresh o- rings😏
You might shop e bay, someone has a stash of them.
However, the thin o rings on Kitec fittings would go bad after storing them for years. They crack and crumble when you try to use them. You need two good soft o rings for them to seal. And chamfer the ID of the tube will to insert the fitting, with some lube. Or you roll the o ring out of the groove.
I scrapped a 5 gallon bucket of old Kitec fittings once the word got out about the dezincification issues. Plus all the o rings were cracking.
Maybe shop some of the online Euro sites, I think a 7mm compression fitting may work. PAP compression fittings will have a brass, not plastic ferrule. A standard pex compression fitting will not work on PAP, even if you find the correct ID and OD.
Caleffi still offers PAP compression fittings, but I’ve checked in the past, the Kitec is just too large of an OD to fit
If the company I mentioned above has 3/8 couplings, that is where I would got. Tolerances are correct and you get fresh o- rings😏
hot_rod
2