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Re: Looking for Advice on Pool Heater Line
I am not a licensed plumber but the homeowner of the detached single-family dwelling performing the work under the provisions of N.J.A.C §5:23-2.15(b)(2)(i).Mad Dog_2 said:Are you the Licensed Plumber on file for this install? Mad Dog 🐕
Re: NYC: Does this look like typical asbestos cement in pipes?
@PeteA thank you. I did use to store my mop and broom in the area so that’s why I’m concerned. I’m also a smoker (ironic huh) so I feel like I should take more precautions than the average person
Re: Aquastat with high and low limit? L8148 with high limit only
Maybe I am stupid or forgot something over the last 50 years.This condition is ideal. If it occurs in a building, we need not discuss this further.
If you set the boiler at 190, 200, 220 whatever does that mean the boiler will maintain that temperature.?
No, the thermostat tells the boiler to run when the space temp is low. The burner fires. If there is enough radiation (more than or = to the boiler output) most of the time the call for heat will be satisfied before the limit temp is reached.... correct? In that condition the limit control will seldom ever operate...correct.
However, I have never seen it in 35 years in residential OIL. The boiler is a minimum of 85K input and the radiation PER ZONE is typically a maximum of 30K. One typically does not get the benefit of multiple zones calling unless the building is close to design.
What typically occurs is the boiler coming up to HL and cycling on the differential. If you set a 200 HL, you are correct in that the boiler will have less cycling due to the zone reaching the 'stat setting faster. If you have a proper purge so the boiler can return back to 130F, this setup MAY be reasonably efficient. I have never experimented with it.
With most oil equipment WITHOUT purge, it is grossly inefficient to run the boiler up to 200F and then have the 'stat shut it down on limit. Just set the boiler at 160F and it might cycle a few more times before the 'stat satisfies.
Where this approach fails miserably is when setback is utilized. If the HL is set lower, the boiler will definitely cycle for a much longer period (possibly several hours) due to the inability of the emitters to deliver anything close to the boiler output.
The boiler is typically oversized with a fixed output. The radiation has a variable output depending on SWT but it is rarely equal or greater than the size of the boiler (certain CI systems excepted).
But that is not always the case. If the home is under radiated or the boiler is oversized in comparison to each other the boiler output in btus and the radiation output in btus will try and find a balance with each other. This could happen at 160, 170, 190 or any other temp in an extreme cases.
There is no balance that can be achieved in this case. Whatever SWT is chosen, the boiler must cycle to maintain it, unless, as you noted, the 'stat satisfies during the climb of the boiler to the HL setting.
Generally, the higher the temperature of the boiler, the greater the overall system efficiency losses. However, you make an interesting point. IF you can go to 190F and satisfy the 'stat quickly and return the boiler to 130F in a relatively short period of time, the efficiency losses due to the 190F setting may be largely offset by the short time the boiler remains there.
So if the boiler is oversized in comparison to the radiation output what is the harm in running the boiler to 190 and then purging the heat upstairs?
I do believe that even with this approach, you can gain efficiency when the heatloss is less than half of design by reducing the HL. Why use 190F in April when you can get, effectively, the same result if you use 160F? One additional issue is comfort...........the overshoot on the radiation (especially CI) will be substantial in April if you use the 190F approach.
There are a lot of variables in the decision to reduce HL and these variables change with the season and the choice of setback. You most certainly can cause a loss of efficiency if the HL is set to 175F with a 20F differential, at a 20F overnight ambient, AND the tenant utilizes an aggressive setback because nobody occupies the building at night! The boiler will cycle for six hours in the morning before the 'stat will satisfy!! The boiler is losing energy constantly to the basement for six hours and has 48 stops and starts during that period!
This is one topic where YMMV! No specific approach will ever work for every building.
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Re: Any reason to keep steam with a Hyper Heat Ducted System
How confident are you that the local grid can supply enough power to run all those new heat pumps. The colder it gets, the more electricity they use. Fortunately the Northeast has been proactively adding Nuclear power for the last 40 years (sarcasm alert).
A steam boiler needs very little electricity. Any 12v car battery and inverter could run it for hours to days. Also a small solar array, a basic box store portable generator, or a computer UPS.
Generic makes automated gas standby home generators. Don't have to lift a finger. Seamless power.
The powerpile parts to modify a gas atmospheric steam boiler to run on no electricity are still available. For the advanced prepper - DIYer.
A steam boiler needs very little electricity. Any 12v car battery and inverter could run it for hours to days. Also a small solar array, a basic box store portable generator, or a computer UPS.
Generic makes automated gas standby home generators. Don't have to lift a finger. Seamless power.
The powerpile parts to modify a gas atmospheric steam boiler to run on no electricity are still available. For the advanced prepper - DIYer.
WMno57
2
Re: Please Criticize My Boiler Install
This is the proper vertical installation, yes this is for your Neutra-safe unit. It's in the instructions.


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Re: ARCO Ideal Round Water Boiler (1920’s)
If there were fusible plugs -- and there might have been, some power boilers had them -- they would be between the crown sheet or top of the firebox and the combustion chamber. Dump boiler water on the fire if things got out of hand... NOT safe, as in a power boiler the pressure would tend to blow the fire or the coals out of the firebox through the front dampers or loading doors. Very exciting.
Re: Drain back with evacuated tubes
Any of the U tube type evac could be used as a drainback if you slope them
The issue I had is that U tube us the small diameter, around 3/8 and doesn’t always drain completely mine went two winters, froze on the third
If you can find a heat pipe style with a smooth header, no low spots. It could work
Keep in mind stagnation temperatures in evac tubes can go well over 500F! So when fluid first hits them, some serious expansion, flashing to steam and noise.
The issue I had is that U tube us the small diameter, around 3/8 and doesn’t always drain completely mine went two winters, froze on the third
If you can find a heat pipe style with a smooth header, no low spots. It could work
Keep in mind stagnation temperatures in evac tubes can go well over 500F! So when fluid first hits them, some serious expansion, flashing to steam and noise.
hot_rod
1
Re: Stupid question regarding furnace air flow
With only 3 wires on the 2 second floor thermostats, it seems like it might be an old Trol-A-Temp Master/Slave zoned system. (Only the first floor thermostat can switch between heat and cool.)
Look around the furnace for a zone panel and zone dampers in branch ducts. Possibly a Summer/Winter switch.
If that's the setup, it could be a bad damper.
There is AC, so High speed fan is probably connected here. Most furnaces using PSC motors offer multiple speeds. If the heat speed is on Low (usually Red wire), then you can increase it to Medium.
There is a rating listed on heat rise for the furnace, so just make sure it's not out of range if you make a motor speed change.
Look around the furnace for a zone panel and zone dampers in branch ducts. Possibly a Summer/Winter switch.
If that's the setup, it could be a bad damper.
There is AC, so High speed fan is probably connected here. Most furnaces using PSC motors offer multiple speeds. If the heat speed is on Low (usually Red wire), then you can increase it to Medium.
There is a rating listed on heat rise for the furnace, so just make sure it's not out of range if you make a motor speed change.
HVACNUT
1
Re: Boiler High Limit set too low?
Thanks @Jamie Hall that is good to know. Even under normal circumstances, I think the boiler left to its own devices rarely gets above 135 when the weather is warmer than 20 degrees - and it only does so because of the existing mixing valve. The mixing valve is only on the return line to keep it above 122 degrees. Before that was installed, it would run for 45 and never get above 115-120 degrees and satisfy the house Tstat. We had -5 degree days in a row and the house was satisfied and the highest the boiler could get the water temp was 139/140 for an hour, boiler only ran 8-9 hours those days.
I'll put it back to the previous max of 143 (which it never hits) and put some sensors on the supply side to log max temp needed based on outside temp. Would be an interesting chart.
I'll put it back to the previous max of 143 (which it never hits) and put some sensors on the supply side to log max temp needed based on outside temp. Would be an interesting chart.
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