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Re: A.O. Smith water heater. Big problems. No help. (JohnNY) **Updated 3/27/15, 11:30am**
THIS!!!!!! is exactly one of the contributing factors why I closed up Triple Crown several years back: At 1135pm on a Friday Night in February, its YOU and YOUR stinking Boiler, HWH, et cetera making the client miserable. Try getting a rep....UNLESS you do TONS of business (BIG dollars) or are on the dart/drinking team with him. Your on your own with a lot of products. They all blow smoke up your... at the trade shows, but very few are REALLY there for you otherwise. Glenn Stanton and Burnham, Johnny White and Taco, Mark Hunt with Wilo, Chuck Shaw, Bob Melinas with Weil Mclain, Bill Wolfe at Honeywell stand out in my memory as Beacons of Light and truth when you're in a jam. I know JohnnyNY from Gateway from many years and have consulted and installed side by side with the man. His men always follow specs and HE picks up the nuance things.... like undersized gas meters, et al....venting issues. The man's trying run a business...he just expects a PREDICTABLE product, honesty, and some real-time info when a problem does crop up. I lost count of how many times I heard: "...REALLY? this is the first were hearing this.....actually, youre the ONLY ones having these problems" then, you find out later from an insider that they knew about the probs long before. I always loved the WAY BELOW "going labor rate" they were "...willing to pay when you proved them wrong. Remember what Ray Wolfarth says in his excellent book: "Manufacturers LIE!!!!" not ALL, but too many. After a while I never swore by alot of brands because it would come back to bite cha. I just changed my sales pitch to : "Listen, ALL these brands have problems sometimes.....I dont need any extra headaches, and that is why I use them...it all depends on how the company handles the problem. Mad Dog
Re: wet returns
Water will always be sitting in those pipes. That's why they are called wet returns. If you have any mains that loop around your basement and then return to the boiler, after the last radiator run, they become dry returns and have to drop down into a wet return to keep steam from flowing through them, causing water hammer.
Most new installs get some drains/spigots on the wet returns to allow them to be flushed out as a part of annual maintenance but a lot of older systems don't have those. Any dirt in the system will eventually get carried back to the boiler. Most of it will settle in the wet returns, some will work its way into the boiler. You should use the Boiler drain to drain the mudleg in the boiler every two or three months. Drain water until it runs clear.
Most new installs get some drains/spigots on the wet returns to allow them to be flushed out as a part of annual maintenance but a lot of older systems don't have those. Any dirt in the system will eventually get carried back to the boiler. Most of it will settle in the wet returns, some will work its way into the boiler. You should use the Boiler drain to drain the mudleg in the boiler every two or three months. Drain water until it runs clear.
Fred
5
Re: Have a Warren Webster Hot Water Heater Model 12H21 (old); Want to hook up in garage.
that is a 4 Speed Motor. you need to pick a speed and only use the WHITE wire with whatever speed you choose.
Black is High
Blue is Medium
Yellow is Medium Low
red is Low
For example, if you want to use Medium Low speed (yellow) you will hook your 115V Hot wire to Yellow and your 115V Neutral wire to WHITE
A line voltage thermostat will work, and you'll run your fan wiring through that (if its a single pole line voltage stat break the yellow wire or whatever speed you choose......if its a double pole stat run both wires......one to each pole of the thermostat)
Black is High
Blue is Medium
Yellow is Medium Low
red is Low
For example, if you want to use Medium Low speed (yellow) you will hook your 115V Hot wire to Yellow and your 115V Neutral wire to WHITE
A line voltage thermostat will work, and you'll run your fan wiring through that (if its a single pole line voltage stat break the yellow wire or whatever speed you choose......if its a double pole stat run both wires......one to each pole of the thermostat)
Don_197
5
I can't say enough...
good things about this company.
I Just got #16 in the mail.
I don't know what kind of expense they incur for these idronics booklets, but it has to be substantial and I, for one, am very grateful. Put the 16 of them together and you have one helluva text book.
It wouldn't mean as much if they didn't have great products but they do.
Thanks Caleffi for the continuing education you make available to anyone and everyone who wants to better their game.
I Just got #16 in the mail.
I don't know what kind of expense they incur for these idronics booklets, but it has to be substantial and I, for one, am very grateful. Put the 16 of them together and you have one helluva text book.
It wouldn't mean as much if they didn't have great products but they do.
Thanks Caleffi for the continuing education you make available to anyone and everyone who wants to better their game.
Re: Is there a heating expert Richard McGrath on here?
Three degree room differential?
On a 50 degree OAT day and all the windows in the house open? And all the rooms in the house were between 48.5 and 51.5 degrees?
Sounds about right. Well within the range of the average wall thermostat set at 50 degrees. It should never come on.
Good Job.
On a 50 degree OAT day and all the windows in the house open? And all the rooms in the house were between 48.5 and 51.5 degrees?
Sounds about right. Well within the range of the average wall thermostat set at 50 degrees. It should never come on.
Good Job.
Re: Is there a heating expert Richard McGrath on here?
Sounds like you did not like some advise you were given on one site so you figured you would go to another for a bit of bashing?
Glad to here you system works so well, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Now run along.....
Glad to here you system works so well, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Now run along.....
Zman
7
Re: Which brand and model of steam boiler is the most reliable?
Pretty much everyone knowns Burnham.
I'd say Burnham and Weil-McLain the two most popular brands by far. But all of them will do fine.
To be extra safe I recommend posting what your guy wants to do here BEFORE he does it. This way everyone can say if it's ok or not and it will make everyone's lives much easier.
I'd say Burnham and Weil-McLain the two most popular brands by far. But all of them will do fine.
To be extra safe I recommend posting what your guy wants to do here BEFORE he does it. This way everyone can say if it's ok or not and it will make everyone's lives much easier.
ChrisJ
5
Re: Which brand and model of steam boiler is the most reliable?
Curious when the last time that boiler was service by a professional? Pilot light and burner assembly cleaned etc?
In my opinion the brand of boiler is moot.
What is important is that it is installed properly and that the system remains leak free and makeup water is kept to a minimum.
Make up water should be manually added slowly either right before, or at the beginning of a heating cycle to ensure it is boiled as soon as possible. Never expect an autofeeder to maintain the level as they don't keep the proper level. They also often add water near the end of a cycle which is the absolute worst thing you could ever do. Autofeeders are nothing more than an emergency device to keep the heat on if you end up with a leak and are not home.
I also highly recommend using water treatment to reduce corrosion and mineral buildup.
Regardless of the brand and age it should be serviced by a professional to ensure it is working correctly, pilot and all. I believe most recommend this annually.
In my opinion the brand of boiler is moot.
What is important is that it is installed properly and that the system remains leak free and makeup water is kept to a minimum.
Make up water should be manually added slowly either right before, or at the beginning of a heating cycle to ensure it is boiled as soon as possible. Never expect an autofeeder to maintain the level as they don't keep the proper level. They also often add water near the end of a cycle which is the absolute worst thing you could ever do. Autofeeders are nothing more than an emergency device to keep the heat on if you end up with a leak and are not home.
I also highly recommend using water treatment to reduce corrosion and mineral buildup.
Regardless of the brand and age it should be serviced by a professional to ensure it is working correctly, pilot and all. I believe most recommend this annually.
ChrisJ
5
Re: Which brand and model of steam boiler is the most reliable?
If you haven't already drawn your own conclusions from the responses here, the true answer is, for all practical purposes, virtually all the cast iron, atmospheric boilers on the market today are about the same in terms of quality, warranty and servicability. They are fairly simple but do require maintainence. Installation is key as is ensuring minimal fresh water is added.
Fred
5
Re: Live steam from the condensate return
Traps, Traps, and more traps. You need to impress on the school system how much fuel your wasting. Not only dumping BTUs to the atmosphere your also
adding a ton of fresh make-up water (and oxygen) to the system that you have to bring from 40 deg. up to steam temperature at least 212 deg. The oxygen will start to rot out the piping --boiler feed piping is the first to go followed by the boiler and the condensate piping. If this keeps going you can loose a boiler, if your lucky only the feed water piping between the boiler feed tank and the boiler will be shot.
adding a ton of fresh make-up water (and oxygen) to the system that you have to bring from 40 deg. up to steam temperature at least 212 deg. The oxygen will start to rot out the piping --boiler feed piping is the first to go followed by the boiler and the condensate piping. If this keeps going you can loose a boiler, if your lucky only the feed water piping between the boiler feed tank and the boiler will be shot.
