Best Of
Re: Help choosing a new boiler (part 2)
Combi boilers are made for apartments , you would find them in the kitchens in Europe where they also use radiators for heat , low temperature heat .. You have a basement with baseboard which is high temperature heat . A condensing boilers efficiency is peak at low temperature . Running it for baseboard the smaller savings gets eating up by the service , besides the aggravation of getting it running again up there with the great moose of the North way :)…. Go low as they allow you to go, as far as tech would be my recommendation …
Big Ed_4
Re: Help choosing a new boiler (part 2)
No, I mean a contractor that specializes in Hydronics. Most plumbers and HVAC contractors are clueless on hydronics.
You need to specifically look for and ask contractors if they’re trained and equipped to properly install and service mod/con boilers. Ask if they have a digital combustion analyzer and if they know how to use it.
There are only a small percentage of jobs where a combi is suitable and they require a lot more maintenance and repairs. Particularly where there’s poor water quality.
The fact that so many contractors push combi’s and Naviens only demonstrates their lack of hydronic expertise.
Ironman
Re: New-ish local boiler install
I added an edit. The piping diagram from the manual and a mock up of what is there. That boiler will flex at the riser tappings. You may catch it in time next summer, OR it may be too late. To be sure, that you get it right next summer, take all the sections apart and install all new "O"ring at all the section connections. you will also need new sealer and maybe new rope gaskets. Part numbers 592-800-010, 592-800-007 and 591-641-865.
You will need a set of o rings and rope gaskets for each section you take apart. OR… You can try to redo the piping without changing the O Rings and hope you get lucky.
Since you have low head room in that location, I strongly recommend a Drop Header in order to get necessary rise in all the vertical pipes. Here is an example of a drop header
Make a special note of three things.
- The header is lower AFTER the boiler risers go above 24" before the elbows turn to make a U turn back down to the Header.
- the system riser is not placed between the two boiler risers.
- The Hartford loop uses a close nipple (#16) that is connecting the equalizer (vertical pipe at the end of the header) at about 2" below the water line, to the wet return piping. Wet return means the return must drop below the boiler water line before it rises up the the close nipple (#16)
Good luck with this project.
Re: New-ish local boiler install
Read
The
Fu**ing
Manual
I agree, it’s like they want to do a poor job. Anyone, in any industry, that doesn’t read the manual, is automatically a hack in my world. I learned how important the manual is when I was a teen assembling my parents new propane grille. Missed part of one step and had to disassemble almost the entire grille because I couldn’t put the last part on. I also work for an OEM manufacturer of industrial HVAC and refrigeration equipment and I can tell you first hand, even on the multi million dollar installs of our equipment some “experienced” contractors screw it up, and screw it up HUGE. It’s sad when there is a manual that will make most of these mistakes, essentially, impossible.
For the OP, I’d start with a radiator survey. If one is going to touch anything you need to know how big the mistakes are. I’d bet money they didn’t size it correctly and on a two pipe that can be a much bigger problem. After that the entire boiler needs repiped. I’m not a two pipe expert, but there are definitely details of each system that need to be correct for it to function properly and that needs to be verified to see how extensive the repipe needs to be.
Re: Integrating mod con boiler into parallel conventional system.
the Lochinvar will need some hydraulic separation. Use a Sep 4 and parallel pipe into the header.
hot_rod
Re: How do I relay power to a circulator from two separate 120v inputs?
the heat pump will have a 120v output for the pump and a dry contact to call the boiler on. Typically when the COP drops to or below 1 you might call on the boiler
hot_rod
Re: How do I relay power to a circulator from two separate 120v inputs?
I might clarify the discussion about this phasing thing. It is all single phase. What is important is that both 120Vac sources is on the same buss in the electrical panel. 120V on one buss and 120V on the other buss = 240V into a device that is only rated for 120V.
Re: How do I relay power to a circulator from two separate 120v inputs?
Hello Jimmie,
Two independent 120 VAC control sources, isolated from each other and the load, so no phase issues. Two independent relay coils, and just parallel the Normally Open (NO) contacts of the relays. Makes a 120 VAC 'OR' circuit. Actually any of the control Voltages can be what ever is needed, 24 VAC control = 24 VAC relay coil.
Or if you are careful and your two independent 120 VAC powered heating units have isolated output contacts to control their own circulator just wire their output contacts in parallel controlling the single circulator from the single circulator's own power source.
Re: How do I relay power to a circulator from two separate 120v inputs?
This diagram will not require that you have the same phase on noth source one and source 2. You do not even need to have the output voltage from source 2 ( the heat pump)
For a 120 VAC circulator output from source 2 to the relay input use this
For a 220 VAC circulator output from the source to the relay input use this





