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Re: Can you combine Energy Kinetics with Rheem hot water tank?

The way the Energy Kinetics boilers produce hot water is extremely efficient due to the use of the brazed plate heat exchanger and the way it uses two circulators to transfer heat from the boiler to the hot water storage tank. Also the low mass of the boiler and the thermal purge feature of the energy manager ensures that as much of the heat created by the fuel you are burning is transferred to with the space you are heating or the hot water storage tank. It's a very slick and well designed system. I would love to have one in my own home. The design of the hot water storage tank also plays a part in the efficiency of the system. I don't know how easily you would be able to convert a different tank to work in the same manner.

I can't comment on what option for producing hot water would be best for you. It depends on fuel costs, electric rates and how much hot water you use. All I can say is that I never get any complaints from my customers about the efficiency of the EK systems. No complaints about running out of hot water either.

SuperTech

4

Re: Happy Holidays! Clogged supply/return line on slab house

any way to easily isolate the circuit in the slab and blast it with city water pressure, 60 psi or so?

Putting a fill valve in to fast flow gets you more pressure, but not a lot more flow. In 3/4 copper you need about 7 gpm to get up over 5 fps velocity.

5 feet per second is when solids start to move along the tube.

/

hot_rod

2

Re: Lingering return pipe noise ... poor venting?

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1830409#Comment_1830409

I do believe it. Really. As I've said above, no you should not throttle the vents. That pipe should be at atmospheric pressure at all times, and never, ever, ever have steam or pressure in it.

Find the actual problem traps or cross connection and fix the problem. Don't keep trying to put a bandaid on it.

Jamie Hall

1

Re: Lingering return pipe noise ... poor venting?

Steam in return pipes will cause all kinds of mischief. Some expected, some not. Your very first step is going to be to find out where that steam is coming from. You likely have several traps here and there which are failed, and you need to find all of them and repair them before you look at anything else.

The second place to look for trouble in your system is any drips where condensate can come from a steam main down to a wet return pipe. Those drips must have fundtioning traps on them — most conventionally F&T, and you need to check size — they're probably too big.

So long as you have steam coming out of the condensate receiver vent, you have a problem — which must be resolved.

Now. I'm puzzled by your comment about the vent for the returns. If these really are dry returns, that vent should be always open, and steam should never get into them. An automatic vent does need to be there, but it should never close. If steam is getting into those dry returns, go back to the beginning here and find the villains. Could be either the device traps or those drips I mentioned.

I might add that both of the things you are complaining (rightly!) about are almost certainly caused by either bad traps or those drips.

Jamie Hall

1

Re: Lingering return pipe noise ... poor venting?

Two nice Hoffman vents there. Why on earth are they valved off? If that dry return has steam in it, fix that problem — don't bury it with that valve.

Jamie Hall

1

Re: Steam Boiler Sizing (Convector radiators)

Correct, you could have used the next size smaller, but you are not drastically oversized. And the EDR numbers may be a little off if your cover dimensions are different than the ones I posted.

The only down firing you can do on the boiler is to reduce the gas pressure no more than 12% and that is not a recommended procedure. It is just something I know will work from experience.

You have the 4 section boiler and the EG-40 already has the smaller firing rate (the 45 has the higher firing rate) and perhaps lowering firing rate more may save you a small fraction on your gas usage. The problem with adjusting the gas pressure lower is that the efficiency of the actual flame will also go down. So there is a sweet spot where the lower flame size will be less efficient but the lower input will counteract that loss of combustion efficiency. The Laboratory at Weil McLain has already done those tests and have determined that the boiler you have is best set at 125,000 BTU Gas input on the low end and 150,000 on the high end (EG-45).

Going any lower than say 112,000 BTU input may actually be less efficient and cause the gas usage to go higher. Any savings you might realize from your fiddling with the gas pressure will only be in the 2 to 3% range anyway, not worth the risk. …And you need a technician that has the time to play with it and check the adjustments with a combustion analyzer. Do you have a friend with a combustion analyzer? Otherwise you will need to pay for a pro with the proper equipment to do these adjustments for you, If your total annual gas bill is $1000.00. And you pay the technician over $150 for the service to do the adjustment, your savings will be about $20.00 a year.

So unless you are experiencing a major short cycling issue, I would leave it alone.

EdTheHeaterMan

2

Re: Lingering return pipe noise ... poor venting?

Whoa. OK. Two pipe steam system. How are the traps on the radiators? Are they functioning properly? It can be a little hard to tell, but with the heating system going and the radiators full — hot across — the outlet from the trap should be warm to hot, but noticeably cooler (at least 5 degrees cooler) than the inlet from the radiator to the trap.

Additionally, all the dry returns — return lines above the boiler water line — may be warm, but none of them should be hot.

Check the rest of the piping. If there any low level return lines — near of at floor level — they must be below (preferably at least two to three feet below) the water level in your condensate tank. If not, any drips (pipes coming down from a steam main to one of these pipes) must have a trap on it (might be an F&T, but could be thermostatic) and that trap needs to be working.

Jamie Hall

2

Re: Steam Boiler Sizing (Convector radiators)

This one is 60.3 of my measurements are correct.

There are adjustments based on the cabinet dimensions and the actual cast iron dimensions. This is the chart I am using and you can see if the cabinet size changes the amount of the heat output changes a little for the same size cast iron convector.

Screenshot 2024-12-28 at 12.44.59 PM.png

As you can see on your 68" long radiator, changing the cabinet hight by just 2" can change the EDR up to 4 Sq Ft. That is why I need you to doublecheck the measurements

EdTheHeaterMan

1