Best Of
Re: pavilion radiant heat
put a large enough wood stove and heat with just that, the radiation of a 300 degree wood stove will transfer more than an 85 degree floor
hot_rod
Re: pavilion radiant heat
I have some thoughts. first if the tubing is not too expensive, it won't hurt much to have it in there, though it will freeze if you aren't careful. I personally would not sign off on heating a space with canvas walls outside in the winter via a radiant floor. A draft house in a cold environment might require an 85 degree slab temp (thats on the really high side) to make the space warm. Imagine the slab temp required to heat an outdoor space in the winter, the slab will not like this, your feet probably won't like this, and you will need to keep it running pretty much all the time because to raise the temp in the coldest weather would take a long time. Instead, if you already have the wood heat available, and put the tubing in the slab, just run it like a snow melt. It won't make the space feel warm, but a slab that is 50 degrees or so over the outdoor temp might help somewhat, and in the shoulder seasons it might actually work for your needs. I wouldn't do this if I was paying for the fuel personally though!
If the goal is to feel warm while you are in the space, there will be nothing easier or more efficient than a free standing, or overhead style radiant heater. many electric options are available, and I believe gas models as well. If you ever go to a restaurant that has outdoor seating in the cold fall or winter weather you have seen these. You can turn them on and feel warm almost immediately after, then turn them off when you are not in the space. It would be my first choice if the goal is to just not feel cold outside.
GGross
Re: New boiler keeping us up all night!
Paul the reason i always push for insulation is aside from being put on before we where born and it does serve a purpose is .
1 Improve even steam distribution even w perfect main venting a uninsulated steam main will never deliver steam to the run out or rads evenly being it has to heat the main and run to a point where it not turn back to condensate plus it still may be steam but at a lower temp being its losing temp till the main pretty pretty hot
2 pipe grooving and leaks yes a steam main will always have condensate forming and running to a wet return or dry return .The issue is when a steam main is un insulated there is much more condensate being formed on start up till that main is hot . Most leaks i encounter on steam mains are usually on uninsulated mains just about always . And w always comes at the joints the thinnest section of the piping it aint a coincident, i would think . Yeah ya get leaks on piping sags water seating and undervented steam mains but usually the water hammer gets you there first
3 Waste of fuel . Plain and simple and i know this as one of the four noble truths . In a distance past i work for a bit doing oil service and installs and advised more then a few customer's upon there complaints about fuel usage and over bearingly baking basement to insulate the steam mains and take offs . I quoted them a price and did the work all where completely amazed at the total difference the insulated piping made from the basement not being 100 degrees to radiators that would never heat now are working . They also had the benefit of using less fuel and being able to lower there stats and finally have even steam distribution . Everyone of them reported using between 20 to 30 % less fuel . That may not seem like much but if your burning 4 to 5 gph its something .
4 Banging not everyone basement is sealed some are like a open barn door in which case you can except some banging from time to time ,cold pipes heating up vacuum forming and bang and again waste of energy
aside from all that its the right thing to do if you want to do it right as the dead men would have done and yes everyone hates insulation its itchy so what grow up man up and either do it or pay a insulation company to do it .
Here's some thoughts if ya think bout it in nyc every heating/cooling pipe on new work has to be insulated its energy code ,even if its low temp radiant .
drips bangs and leaks just food for thought
peace and good luck clammy
clammy
Re: Do two wire thermostats short the thermostat wire when they turn on?
Yes you can just add a capacitor at pins 2 & 3, see page 6 and 7 of the App note.
109A_5
Re: Efficiency of an indirect water heater
Not all Heat Losses are equally bad. Some are large and significant. Some are trivial. It is vitally important to know the difference. This is why we need to measure and quantify the heat losses and respect the facts as shown by the data. Otherwise we are chasing down every rabbit-hole.
ModCon Boilers are designed to minimize jacket heat losses. My ModCon Boiler is in a sealed boiler room. The heat losses from my boiler are trivial, especially when running only 8 minutes every 2 hours. My boiler definitely does not "heat my house" in the summer. But the boiler heat losses are included in the boiler thermal efficiency.
I know a plate heat exchanger is good, primarily because of the small size and large surface area - but why do you need one in the first place ? Adding an extra Heat Exchanger just complicates the system, increases the ∆T and reduces efficiency. I prefer to use an Indirect type that does not need an external heat exchange - because it has an internal heat exchanger which will always be more efficient.
My Indirect is a Smart stainless-steel jacketed tank-in-tank type with a very large heat transfer area. It is a very-efficient heat exchanger. This large heat transfer area allows the Boiler to run at a lower ∆T and higher efficiency when making DHW. No external plate heat exchanger required.
Equipment selection and system design make the difference on system efficiency and reliability. This forum should really be discussing "Best Indirect DHW System Design".
Doug_7
Re: PTFE Gasket for #67 LWCO and #14B blow-down valve?
I have placed an order.
EBEBRATT-Ed's anti-seize and fiber gaskets was my next alternative; but it is no surprise that my first choice is to go with what I know.
Thanks for the helpful and insightful comments.
Re: Tower blow down valve needed
You should have a strainer before that valve.
Any motorized valve will work.
Daily makeup water readings should be taken to notice the issue before losing all those chemicals.
pecmsg
Re: Retirement second thoughts
Im in the same boat. It does become harder to stay in the loop when you’re not in the game every day. Mainly putting your hands on the newest and latest stuff.
Sites like this will keep you up to date on the industry, both the newest and the oldest equipment out there gets dragged across HH. It is a unique site in that respect.
Plenty of opportunity for freebie work for neighbors and friends to keep the tools from getting rusty.
Pick a hobby or two. I help out with a local dog rescue group, you get two wins. You and the dog. Also the therapy dog group that my sister is involved with.
The box stores around me are staffed with semi-retirees, many work 4 hour shifts a few days a week. My lumber guy at HD goes in early to restock, leaves at 10:00 AM
You gotta keep the body moving, or lose it.
hot_rod
Re: Do two wire thermostats short the thermostat wire when they turn on?
Hello In_New_England,
I would do it something like this.
Say you want the boiler the run for 10 minutes every 8 hours when the temperature outdoors is less than 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Mostly independent of anything else. (the times are just an example)
If the boiler's normal thermostat has activated then the microcontroller box delays its call by 8 hours (or what ever you want).
The microcontroller would ignore a call from itself (relay closure).
So above 32 degrees Fahrenheit or if the boiler's normal thermostat calls are more frequent than 8 hours the microcontroller will never generate a call for heat.
Fairly simple program for an Arduino or the like.
What is the maximum AC input voltage of the HCPL3700, I could not find it in the data sheet.
The temperature input can be anything you want a temperature switch, Analog or Digital. If you use a sensor that reports the actual temperature to the microcontroller (analog LM34, digital DS18B20, etc.) the frequency of the boiler running can increase as it gets colder outside.
I would probably buffer the relay coil with a transistor and don't forget the diode across the relay coil.
109A_5
Re: Do two wire thermostats short the thermostat wire when they turn on?
HCPL3700
Going by the symbols in the HCPL3700 circuit, D1 and D2 appear to be Schottky Diodes (low forward voltage drop). D3 and D4 seem to be Zener Diodes (Limits the input Voltage). You may not be able to apply 24 VAC directly to pins 1 and 4, you may need (at least) a current limiting resistor. If you use this device I would use the DIP package and install a socket.
Edit: Also look at - Application Note 1004
You will need to filter it too unless your microcontroller's code can deal with the microcontroller's input pin switching on and off at a 120 Hz rate during boiler inactivity.
109A_5