Best Of
Re: NTI FTVN , HTP ELU-199WBN , or Navien NHB-110
It's all about installer, and somewhat about parts availability. I don't personally prefer any of the brands mentioned, but they are all decent boilers that many installers trust, and can get parts for.
T80 looks like it was an 80,000 BTU input boiler. Personally I would look at an 85,000 input if it were me, however you already have 3 quotes. 2 for 110 input, likely the smallest size those brands offer, and they modulate so its close. and 1 for a 199 input model more than 2 times the input of your old equipment. I would personally ask that installer why they quoted a boiler more than twice the size of the old one, and if they could quote something a bit closer to what is there now. of the 3 HTP is probably the one I like the most but I wouldn't want an installer to double the equipment input size on me. HTP offers a few options for 85,000 input boilers
GGross
Re: Beckett AFG: It's WORKING! But ... Why was it before, and is it correct now?
Just popping back in here to offer a bit of closure on this subject as well as a public "Thank you!" to Joe Szwed and Energy Kinetics for the incredible after-the-sale customer support on a system that is over 30 years old. Joe had reached out to me in response to the posts in this thread, found that I was living in a tiny remote town in Alaska with no recourse to HVAc pros, and showed indomitable patience with me as I asked "why?" to almost everything he suggested, and now the system is running much much better, more efficiently, and much safer, to boot.
Trying not to bore you all with too many details, but Joe pointed out several things that were blatantly wrong about the system and worked with me to help me set it up correctly ... I had no idea about these issues since the system was, in essence, set up and running as it was when I got the house 6 years ago. (And we wonder how long before that!)
~A few notable details include replacing the burner primary control with a Carlin 70200, as that gives me onboard control/data without having to buy the Beckett Contractor tool (the Carlin was cheaper than the Contractor tool, so an easy choice).
~The puff switch is now reconnected (it had been bypassed before) to the Blocked Vent inputs on the Carlin.
~The incorrect T&P valve, which had been leaking for years, replaced with a correct pressure relief valve, and the failing expansion tank replaced as was the suspect pressure reducing valve for the feed, a couple old bleeders, etc.
~The incorrect high limit aquastat has been replaced with a new aquastat of the correct type.
~The extra "band-aid" clamp on aquastat is removed (it was serving as high limit, since the other one could not have been working right!)
~The system return temperature has been increased from 130 to 170 which made a huge difference in system effectiveness, as well as reducing potential issues due to condensing.
~The EK1 has been opened, inspected, and cleaned out, as has the flue. No real issues noted other than years of build-up which, frankly, I thought would be worse. The flue has been reassembled better, and draft has been corrected to within specs set by Energy Kinetics. (so the puff switch didn't cause lockouts, which it was due to low draft, so that's why it was likely disconnected by a previous serviceperson).
~With my new TPI smoke pump and TPI 709 combustion analyzer I set the burner correctly, and double-checked, to the specs recommended.
I do believe Joe is satisfied with my results, my growing functional understanding of the system, and we both feel that it is going to prove more efficient and much safer than it was set up when we started. The system will work better until we can integrate the heat pump as planned, and due to the construction of it (and the fact that replacement parts are still available!) I can keep it going after the heat pump to use as backup heat and augment the heat pump if needed … well into the future.
Deep gratitude for all the detailed emails and patience. Joe Szwed and Energy Kinetics have shown what real support is!
Additional kudos and thanks to James Altom at Arctic Technical Services in Fairbanks, Alaska, for twice giving me more than I deserved in helpful information on the phone when I called to order parts.
Over and out.
Mizamook
Re: Check my math, please.
No. The formula you quote up there is for impedance n parallel for electronics. Water doesn't work that way.
If you are seeking the maximum head in a system of parallel loops, you simply look for the loop with the highest head loss. You do NOT add the heads in the various loops in any way. You DO add the flows to get the total flow.
What is somewhat analogous electronics is that the flows in the various loops will divide so that each loop will have the same loss, just as in electronics each parallel path will have the same voltage drop.
Re: Boiler manual contradicts gama sizing table - who to trust?
You are confusing area with diameter. Don't. @KC_Jones has it. And which do you trust? You go with the larger of the two — in this case, you need an 8 inch circular flue.
Re: Boiler manual contradicts gama sizing table - who to trust?
That manual says area, not diameter.
By area it would come out to 8”.
KC_Jones
Re: Oil burner turns on for less than a second
If this is a hot water system, the aquastat is still functional (as you have found out) — it controls how hot the hot water heat water is.
On that smushed wire. It may look fine, but if it were mine I'd replace it…
Re: Mod-Con Combis with full documentation and controls for DIY
Combis are usually the worst option. They need to be drastically oversized for the space heating load in order to make hot water on demand. This leads to increased cycling and higher costs of maintenance and repair. I would never recommend installing one especially if you have room for an indirect.
The brand of the boiler doesn't matter as much as the quality of the installation. Who is doing the job is more important than what brand is being installed, however I would recommend staying away from Navien.
Re: Cold bathroom, replace small radiator?
Lets just say that the radiator is working properly and the vent is working properly (and there is no more odor from that vent LOL) That would make it to be putting out all the heat that it possibly can. Now lets look at the location in the room. when that system was originally installed, I'll bet that the room did not look like that. I'm guessing that the original tub had claw legs and there was no wall between the tub and the radiator. Finally that washing machine wn not in that bathroom when that radiator heated that room so many years ago.
Now you have a couple of walls from floor to ceiling and a machine that goes almost up to the ceiling that is cutting down on the movement of convection air currents in that room. So I will ask this: Is the room around the radiator any hotter than the room away from the radiator?
Just an idea!
Re: Cold bathroom, replace small radiator?
The output of that radiator would give you 57 btu's per sq ft. I don't think the size is the issue, I think it's the venting. I don't live there, so there is some speculation.
Does the radiator get fully hot on the coldest days? If it does not, then venting is what you should be looking at.
Assuming it doesn't heat all the way on the coldest day. If you replace with a larger radiator and keep the same vent, it will heat at virtually the same rate as it currently does, in other words no more heat. If you leave that radiator and put a bigger vent, you will get more heat, but that assumes all the venting on the system (including mains) is proper and balanced.
You need to have good main venting such that the mains fully fill with steam before the radiators start heating. Then you can look at the radiator venting and size it for what is needed. Bigger radiator, bigger vent, unless it's a big radiator in a small room and you want less heat.
Was your odor issue ever resolved? Did they re pipe the boiler to minimum spec from what was there? That could factor in to the ability of this radiator to heat properly as it could contribute to difficulty balancing the system.
KC_Jones
Re: Lochinvar / Knight Boiler 80-285 Issues
@articpenguin, what I had in mind is more than new sensors which could have been cleaned. I meant a thorough combustion chamber cleaning. I set the service lite at about 2 years in the programing. I do a thorough combustion cleaning on this boiler every 2-3 years. The dirtiest boiler that I ever cleaned was this boiler and it took me 4hrs to do the job.
