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Re: Need Help With Radiant Floor Heating-How to operate my system

What advantage has HW heating with electric resistance for energy source? Now if bridger intends to eventually use a heat pump then there may be some point to make existing system functional. But why rush the job? A couple of hundred dollars worth of electric space heaters will do the job. If he needs new electric circuits job can be done faster than pressure testing pipes and then fixing leaks. Also this forum proves how many problems happen with HW radiant.
jumperjumper

Purchased a former school with steam / pneumatic heating - HELP!

Hi everyone, I have been doing all sorts of research and checking out many of the threads on this site which has some great information. Here is my situation - I will try to keep it fairly brief. I will continue to add questions as I progress with this sytem...

I have just closed on the purchase of a former elementary school. Its one level, approx. 23000 sq ft. It has 2 large boilers for heat and is a 2 pipe steam system. Thermostats / actuators are all pneumatic. The school has been maintained, but not in service for the last 7 years. Heat was maintained with sensors which turned the boiler(s) on at 55 deg. and off at 58

Siemens has installed some controls for day/night mode and a few other things which is for a separate thread.

I have already found and fixed a couple of air leaks, but the air compressor in the basement runs about every 13 mins for a few mins at a time. Correct me if I am wrong, but this seems like a lot. Compressor kicks on at 45psi, off at 70psi. Then the pressure is reduced to 25psi or 8psi, depending on if the system is in day/night mode.

My main concern right now is maintenance. I have not counted the steam traps, but I would guess there are approx 50. Mostly F&T and Thermostatic i believe. Also many strainers and controls for HVAC which I am assuming is due to the fresh air intake that is required for public schools. When I turn the boilers to "day" mode, steam pressure is maintained. Boilers kick on at 3psi and off at 7psi, which seems to be high based on what I have been reading. However, I have had trouble finding much info on commercial systems. I have not messed with pressuretrols or anything since I am scared that I will screw other parts of the system up.

Anyway - main issue is that I am blowing a decent amount of steam from the return condensate tank air vent. I am guessing this is from failed steam traps. I have done a ton of research on trying to find failed traps with no success. I have a thermal imaging camera and also purchased an ultrasonic tester. Both of these methods have not helped me to find a trap that is definitely failed. The traps we have opened up seem to be pretty clean (which i know does not tell us that it's not failed, but I thought for sure the system would be full of all sorts of sludge, rust, etc.) I have also opened up some of the strainers and they also look decent, just some rusty water that comes out.... The largest steam trap I found has a tag that reads "warren webster size 26-T drip trap". It is at the end of one of the steam supply runs and looks older than dirt. Since its in one of the large crawl spaces in the school, I am guessing it has not been maintained. Could a trap like that that is failed produce a good amount of steam? I am scared to open it up since I don't have any (and cant find any) parts for it. Not to mention I am scared to break it since it's pretty rusty. I have attached a photo.

I guess to sum this up, if you purchased a fairly large building with a steam system, what are the first things you would do / check for maintenance?

Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance
Tom
Tom_HTom_H

Re: counterflow steam problems

That's what Ipoorly described. I've done quite a few of these and it works well

Re: Respect the old boiler's water line in a replacement?

Unless Chris and I are both missing something you guys are seeing. The wet returns in question are currently about 4-6' long right at the boiler. From what the OP has said and what can be seen in the pictures this seems like a very straight forward situation. To the OP are there any other wet returns in the basement other than the ones shown in your boiler pictures? Is most if not all of the return piping up towards the ceiling and the only low wet return is that one right at the boiler?

Re: Beckett Pump losing prime

I agree with Robert 100 percent 2 pipe is not the way to go it does clog filters faster in fact you need a bigger filter with 2 pipe because you have tripled the gph trough it. Add to that the added expense time and risk of leak not to mention oil siphon backwards at time of tune up there is no need for 2 pipe especially when there are other options for lift like a tigerloop. BTW you will never clean the tank with the filter proper additives and treatments will the filter is supposed to protect nozzle and fuel pump not clean the tank

Re: Beckett Pump losing prime

You are thinking of sludge as being in a fixed state and finite quantity.There are many different types of sludge, many are biological and hence reproduce.

Re: Beckett Pump losing prime

I can't imagine any joints (copper) inside of a tank. The leak paths are typically from the duplex on. The Loop wasn't designed to circumvent poor joint makeup. If that were the case, you'd have drain back every off cycle and foam in the Loop chamber every start cycle.

HUGE difference in filter load up between 2 pipe vs one pipe.

Thoeretically the boiler cleanliness should have no bearing on piping but it does real world as the system ages. 

Re: Whistling radiator vents with Vaporstat

"The reduced whistling with a main vent off is because steam is shooting out, reducing system pressure"!

Yep...........That's exactly what you are trying to do. The whistling is being caused by building pressure in under vented mains.
Paul48Paul48

Re: Replacing Pressuretrol and Pressure Gauge

pressuretrol calibration question
I did not yet add the low pressure gauge but I will tomorrow. Question about the dial inside. You can see in pic that there are numbers from 1-5. Is this the cut out dial. It is now close to 1. Does that mean it cuts out at a lower pressure? Fred I don't see the tiny hex head. Am I missing it or is this pressuretrol different?

Tjhat's a much, much older Presssuretrol (probably 35+ years old) . It doesn't have the same pivot arm on it as the more current models (less than 25 to 30 years old). I do see a couple set screws there that are probably for calibration but you will probably have to play with those. The procedure I outlined in one of my earlier posts won't work on this one.
FredFred

Re: Piping methods of EC variable speed pump and zone valves

The Alpha pump comes with a plastic IFC that can be installed in its output flange. As far as using the Alpha or any pump, you start by calculating head loss. Since the "zones/loops" are in parallel, calculate the head loss of each "loop" (separately) and use the highest value you calculate. Then cross that head loss on the chart and see what the GPM output is. If it satisfies the total GPM (all zones open), then your good to go.