Best Of
Re: Augusta Stone Church
Please do not yell;
I am speaking here as a homeowner with a coal fired boiler heating system and paraphrasing what Brother Jamie has said "Mercy Me, YUCK!!!!!!!!!!"
As you are in an area where Anthracite rice coal can be obtained easily, your heating system can be upgraded with a dual fuel EFM DF520 coal stoker set up for steam heating with some work and reconnect/replace the missing radiators to replace that abomination in my opinion as a lay person.
The EFM DF520 coal stoker boiler has a 3 inch tapping in the steam chest and two 2 inch returns for hydronic heating.
Again I am speaking as a homeowner having grown up with one pipe steam heat; a 3 inch double header coming off the riser in the steam chest makes a great deal more sense with that mess as the 3 inch drop header transitioning to a 4 inch header pipe then rising to meet the existing piping would make much more sense and allow the entire church to be heated eliminating all that excess piping and making a cleaner installation.
You apparently have at least 24 inches in open space above the existing boiler for a double drop header with a drain back to the boiler Hartford loop so it would be an ideal installation to create very dry steam.
The EFM DF520 can be equipped with a dual fuel heating system where I believe natural gas can be the dual fuel used rather than oil.
I am making the popcorn with olive oil and will pass it around here as I wait and see what happens next.
It may be well worth the phone call to EFM in Emmaus, Pa and ask about adding a second riser to the DF520 boiler to increase the steam output more quickly to a double drop header to replace that mess.
Please do not yell.
leonz
Re: Indirect vs Electric water heater
@Ghynes440 said: We are with PECO, so our kWh rate is $0.102 and our gas rate is $0.681 per CCF.
Those are not your total costs—that’s just the price of the fuel or energy. It does not include transmission, distribution (delivery), riders, fees, or taxes. when comparing to fuel delivered by truck to your home like Fuel oil you need to use the total cost because the fuel delivery per gallon includes the transportation and taxes and all the other fees, without itemization. That is how the utilities get you confused
If you look at your bill and divide the total amount charged by the kWh or CCF you actually used, you’ll find that you’re really paying about $0.21 per kWh (not $0.102) and about $1.75 per CCF (not $0.681). That may be why you’re not saving as much as you expected after replacing your oil boiler with a WM GV90+. It may be a bit more efficient, but not enough to justify the cost of the replacement.
Water under the bridge—now let’s look at the hot water situation with that $0.21/kWh electric rate and see if the indirect is a good idea.
Calculation to follow:
Since we can’t discuss pricing here, I have a national range from angi.com for three different water heaters: a heat pump water heater is $1,600 to $5,800, and I believe they are actually higher in your area. The federal tax credit of $2000 is gone for now and there is only a $350.00 rebate from PECO. Another option would be a standalone water heater that uses gas and is power vented, with an EF of 0.65, and that has a price range of about $400 higher than the HPWH after rebates. Then there is the indirect tank connected to your GV90+. Using an .65 EF for the power vent water heater and a COP of 3 for the HPWH and an AFUE of 91.0% for the boiler here is how crunching the numbers using what you really pay for electricity and gas, this is what I have come up with:
This chart does not account for energy cost inflation over ten years. It only uses the actual cost to produce hot water using three different heat sources: a GV90+ at 91.0% AFUE, a standalone power-vented water heater with an energy factor of 0.65, and a heat pump water heater with an average COP of 3.
The installed price will be higher and will depend on the water heater you select. There are more efficient standalone HPWH and gas power-vented water heaters available, so in most cases, the more you pay for the equipment, the lower your operating cost will be.
Other factors that are not considered:
- A HPWH operating in your basement will lower the basement temperature by as much as 3° while operating, averaging about a 0.6° impact over time. That may cause you to use a little more gas to heat your home, but not enough to actually measure.
- A standalone 120°F gas water heater is always connected to an exhaust vent that leads to the outside, even on the coldest days of the year. Imagine that temperature difference and the amount of heat that may be lost during standby (off) cycles.
- The indirect is not connected to a vent, but the boiler it relies on is connected to the exhaust system and may actually go cold to room temperature in the summer if there is no hot water use for several hours. so there is no standby loss up the chimney or out the vent when that happens.
I hope this helps.
Sorry Paul. Your HPWH is the better choice in your case because of the rebates and incentives, and the steam boiler can’t get anywhere close to 91% efficiency. You made the right choice for you—but it is not the right solution for everybody.
Re: Indirect vs Electric water heater
A comment on heat pump water heaters. Wonderful gadgets. Expensive to buy and maintain, but wonderful on energy.
With a problem. Their recovery rate is abysmal. Unless you engage the resistance element (which some, but not all, have) it will take, quite literally, hours for them to reheat the tank (the resistance elements are, of course, quicker — but then you might as well have a straight electric…). What this means, in practice, is that what you have for hot water in the morning or the evening is what there is in the tank, and no more.
Now if you are a two person household and go for Navy style showers with a piddly 1.5 gpm shower head, this may work for you. Otherwise, maybe not so much.
Re: What do you look for in entry level job candidates?
Hobbies, does either work on their own vehicle ?
109A_5
Re: Glycol Additives for new Ground Loop commissioning
Make sure that ground lop is pressure tested and certified leak gith — I'd want it to hold at least twice the relief valve pressure for at least 24 hurs.
Why? Because if you get that glycol into the ground in your area, you are going to have a big cleanup for really big dollars.
thermostatic mixing valve TMV not working with new tankless combi boiler.
I have recently installed a new Navien tankless boiler, which is working fine.
I have in a back bathroom a TMV mixing valve which does not appear to work with the new boiler. I have just replaced the valve to no avail. It makes no difference how I adjust the valve, max, min, or anywhere in between, I get no hot water, AND the tankless shows no DHW flow thru the status screens. (only this faucet, which is after the mixing valve, behaves in this way). The cold and hot lines are not reversed.
It appears to be a flow issue thru the valve ???
Thank you for any thoughts you might have.
geofear
Re: Question about Erie zone valve
This is why we, as techs, will replace the whole valve. It's not worth the risk to just change out parts of the valve and hope there isn't something else going on. If i was going to open up the valve and drain the system the smart play would have been to just change the whole valve body and actuator. Now your just questioning the issue again.
pedmec
Re: Riello Burner Issue
I had a Reillo oil burner in my previous house that started operating very intermittently . I would have to use the reset button to get it started again. Very hard to fix an intermittent problem, The service tech came and in the end the oil valve solenoid was the problem. He never saw this problem before. I may sound crazy but if I wanted to be independent of any service tech costs, I would just buy a second burner as a backup or source of spare parts to use for troubleshooting. Tradeoff between the cost of a service call and a replacement part versus buying a second burner to have on hand and doing your own work.
Re: Water loss in steam system
Since this was installed for a previous homeowner, I would steer away from this kind of letter that could be perceived as a bit threatening. The copper looks like the connection from header to steam main from other thread and may be EXACTLY what the previous homeowner wanted to pay for during installation. The repair is relatively quick. Cut out bad joint and install new. Would it be better to repipe in black pipe? Of course, but when there is a budget...you get it functional if you cant repipe yourself. The boiler installation looks reasonably well done in pics from the other thread. Its a lot better near boiler piping than is often posted on this site.
Re: Heat flow HF 40 vs Pure Pro 40ss
People tend to overestimate the efficiency of an indirect. In the best case, they run about the same efficiency as a decent power vented stand alone gas water heater but cost about 2x to install. Around me the combination of boiler and power vent is the most common.
If you want cheap hot water and don't have a big tub to fill, heat pump water heaters are the cheapest to run and tend to be the least expensive to install especially in places with utility incentives. There are now versions that can be connected to a 120V circuit as well.
Kaos