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Re: Long term designed and supported mod-con fantasy?
The specific problem which you are working on is boiler efficiency vs. longevity. The problem is actually remarkably simple and, unhappily, limited by dear old physics. To get into the 90% plus range (you can't get much over 96% anyway -- Second Law problems) you need to have excellent heat transfer rates with, on one side, a highly corrosive gas/liquid. The heat transfer rates mandate thin metal. The corrosive liquid mandates very good corrosion resistance, and even more since the metal is thin. Worse, it must be fatigue resistant (even if heat transfer isn't improved with fins or convolutions, there will be fatigue).
Can you do it? Sure. Is it going to be doable at consumer level pricing? Um... no. There is a very good reason why the heat exchangers used on aircraft for a variety of purposes are 6 figure items, and even then have a limited life (on condition, but typically replaced somewhere around 5000 hours).
Part of the art of engineering -- and it is an art -- comes in selecting a design and materials which will do the job required for a reasonable length of time at a reasonable price. I may say that from my vantage point the folks making mod/con boilers which do hit in the mid nineties on efficiency and run for 10 years (perhaps 20,000 hours in service) with minimal maintenance are doing a pretty good job.
As to homes being built today lasting 100 years... I've inspected a lot of them, and I have to say no. No hope. A few, perhaps, but the materials being used just aren't up to it -- nor (see the above comments) are they intended to be.
Can you do it? Sure. Is it going to be doable at consumer level pricing? Um... no. There is a very good reason why the heat exchangers used on aircraft for a variety of purposes are 6 figure items, and even then have a limited life (on condition, but typically replaced somewhere around 5000 hours).
Part of the art of engineering -- and it is an art -- comes in selecting a design and materials which will do the job required for a reasonable length of time at a reasonable price. I may say that from my vantage point the folks making mod/con boilers which do hit in the mid nineties on efficiency and run for 10 years (perhaps 20,000 hours in service) with minimal maintenance are doing a pretty good job.
As to homes being built today lasting 100 years... I've inspected a lot of them, and I have to say no. No hope. A few, perhaps, but the materials being used just aren't up to it -- nor (see the above comments) are they intended to be.
Re: Does shutting off zones save money?
Do you ever "monitor" your boiler to get an idea of the cycle run time lengths ?
Long burns are best.
Long burns are best.
The Rise and Fall of Radiator Foundries: A Two Century Journey to Casting Radiators for Today
THE GENERAL SOCIETY OF MECHANICS & TRADESMEN OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK
FOUNDED 1785
Labor, Literature and Landmark Lecture Series
Fall 2023
The Rise and Fall of Radiator Foundries: A Two Century Journey to Casting Radiators for Today
With Nick and Annie Baylis, Owners, Castrads
Tuesday, October 24th at 6 p.m.
An Online and In-Person Program
To register in-person, please click here.
To register for online attendance, please click here.
General Admission: $15
Seniors & General Society Members: $10
Students: $5
Advance registration is required.
All registrants will receive a link to the recording approximately 10 days after the lecture.
Castrads is a small, family-run business that manufactures new cast iron radiators in Manchester, England. This talk with the husband and wife owners of Castrads, Nick and Annie Baylis, will cover the development of heating technology in textile mills both sides of the Atlantic, the early manufacturers, the American Radiator Company's domination of the global market, and on to the eastward march of foundries as demand in the west diminished.
Castrads is now casting radiators in England fifty years after the last English radiator foundry closed its doors. The talk will also cover the technical challenges associated with onshoring this long-lost skill.
In 2018, Castrads opened a showroom in Manhattan and a warehouse in Brooklyn to serve the US market with new cast iron radiators and a refurbishment service. This talk will also celebrate the launch of their new showroom in SoHo - Manhattan's cast iron district. For more information on Castrads, please visit www.castrads.com.
Nick and Annie Baylis met while studying for their undergraduate degrees at University College London. After his masters degree, Mr. Baylis began working in the family business, Castrads, in 2009. Ms. Baylis joined the company in 2018 after a career in translation and research, when the couple relocated to New York to set up Castrads North America.
The process of refining their products for tomorrow’s heating systems and on-shoring production continues to fuel their interest in cast iron radiators as markers of social and political change over the past 150 years. The couple now live in Stockport, England with their two daughters.
Re: Ok...now I'm a believer.....
Carbide is a bit scary how hard it is.
I've taken things made out of hardened steel that someone couldn't drill through at all and milled through it like plastic with a carbide endmill.
I've taken things made out of hardened steel that someone couldn't drill through at all and milled through it like plastic with a carbide endmill.
ChrisJ
2
Re: Ok...now I'm a believer.....
Oh Yeah! When cutting ferrous metal, carbide tipped blades are your friend!
Pumpguy
1
Re: The last word about c-wire thermostats and wiring diagrams.
Common is confusing too. In this case common is the unswitched side of the power source that is connected directly to the load but if you just said common to me with no knowledge of hvac I would think of it as the switched side of the power source.When you hear "common" in electrical, you think of a switched wire?
I think of neutral.
ChrisJ
1
Re: Understanding heat flows in high mass heating systems in old houses
We have an 1855 farmhouse in MI that we renovated using all of the existing cast iron radiators and got some more to boot, plus some panel radiators and heated towel racks. It is a high mass system of 16 or 17 radiators. We are using a Viessmann 222F mod-con boiler. No thermostats in the house. I also made a point to use 5/8 sheetrock throughout the house and it has a two-coat plaster finish. High mass. Works great.
psb75
2
Re: Hydrolevel VXT
Mad Dog_2 said:I built my Steam Vapor System from scratch starting in 2001. One 1/2" Apollo Ball Valve. No water feeder. I understand in a commercial situation, but the whole reason for a VXT is to track feed water usage, right? Find and fix the leaks and you can go with several Mc Donnell Miller Models that are very trouble free. I don't know why MM doesn't have a metering model to compete with the VXT?. Mad Dog 🐕
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hydrolevel-45-130-WM-1-General-Purpose-Heavy-Duty-Water-Meter-w-3-4-Adapters-0-5-to-35-GPM
ChrisJ
1
Re: Removal of 80 gallon stone lined water heater
I love it! Reminds me of the man that taught me most of what I know mechanically. He just turned 80 and is still working. A year ago I was working on a shutdown he was running at a mill and had finished the first job he had given me. I went looking for him - found him changing a 6” steam seperator by himself with a couple chain falls. Had the old one down and the new one rigged and ready to lift.
Matt_67
1
