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Re: System 2000, nearly double the cost of Weil McLain, is it worth it?
@riny said: "The boiler couldn't make enough heat to cover both the DHW demand and the radiators at the same time, so we were getting cold showers whenever there was a zone running."
That was not the fault of the boiler or the coil. That happens when the wrong control logic is implemented. The proper control logic is to have the central heat circulator stop running whenever the boiler temperature falls below the minimum temperature to sustain DHW demand. The plumber that disconnected the storage tank did not understand the control wiring logic for the system you have (had) so you found fault with the oil boiler incorrectly. The fault was with the person who wired the controls incorrectly.
Of course the professional would not admit to this due to not knowing what they don't know, or perhaps wanting to provide a reason for selling a new appliance to fix the problem they created. I can't count on all my fingers and toes the number of incorrectly wired circulators on tankless coil boilers that I have rewired to solve the "Cold Shower" problem with the addition of just 2 wires to existing controls.
Caused many a plumber from selling a new electric water heater over my career.
Re: Packing Heat
Hi, I'll add that I went a few rounds with Martin Holladay on this and ultimately, it depends on the assumptions you make going in. I have been able to greatly reduce the cost, complexity and labor involved to build solar thermal DHW. I'll add that there is no one-size-fits-all. My system works in a temperate climate. Martin had a hard time accepting the measured data I gave him, so continues to believe solar thermal is dead. I'm seeing it give a rate of return around 25%, with a life expectancy of at least twenty years. Blanket statements only keep some people warm.
Yours, Larry
Re: Observations on my old, rotted out wet return.
You're missing the whole advantage of copper: it doesn't rust. Since I replaced the black pipe with copper, my boiler stays much cleaner. I never realized how much rust was forming in the wet return before I installed sight glasses on the drips and could see that it's perfectly clear, clean water before it gets into the wet return. With copper, it stays that way and my boiler water stays clean all winter.
Re: Observations on my old, rotted out wet return.
Copper is fine below the water line simply because there's no negative for it there, and there is a good reason to use it, its corrosion-resistance.
The dead men were just men
Re: Observations on my old, rotted out wet return.
What's your speculation. Was the pipe rotting from the inside out or from the outside? I have seen both. Bet you have too.
Intplm.
Re: Replumbing: Solder or Threads for Ball Valves
Okay, Back to the original question of sweat vs threaded connections for valves. My approach has long been to use threaded valves, as valves eventually fail. If I can build things so a torch is not needed the next time around, that's a plus in my mind. 😇
Yours, Larry
Re: System 2000, nearly double the cost of Weil McLain, is it worth it?
@EdTheHeaterMan OK thanks. So in your estimation, maybe 15% of the EK savings may have been due to getting rid of the tankless coil, and the other 20% to the other efficiencies of the EK?
So in the OP's case, where a tankless coil is not involved, if the OP is saving 20% per year on 1235 gallons of oil, at $3.50/gal that's a potential savings of about $850/yr.
I still think a new Weil McLain with no coil is going to be within 10-15% of an EK, so I would peg the probable savings at a lower number, with the 20% as perhaps an upper limit for potential savings in this case, where the homeowner is not replacing a tankless coil or indirect.
jesmed1
Re: Cold only leak?
probably the tankless heater gasket. It is common for them to leak when cold as the gasket gets old it loses it elasticity.
Re: System 2000, nearly double the cost of Weil McLain, is it worth it?
Thank you, @Hot_water_fan . Idle loss is a characteristic of boilers and has particular relevance with oversizing impacts, load profiles, and annual efficiency. Steady state thermal efficiency and idle loss together provide very good insight into how boilers will perform in the field, so I would say that the study is very relevant and important for making and informed decision.
Roger
Roger
Re: System 2000, nearly double the cost of Weil McLain, is it worth it?
I find that hard to believe. Can you give some examples? Tech Support saved my butt a few days ago. And I only waited 2 minutes. I didn't go into a que hole for 3 hours and need to have model and serial numbers of everything before I was connected. I'm also pretty sure my Territory Manager covers your area, and there couldn't be a nicer guy. So justification is needed.
HVACNUT