Augusta Stone Church

one pipe and zoning usually don't get along with each other.

calling that a "header" is very generous

i bet the condensate pump does not need to exist

2 boilers would probably work better and cost about the same as making the 2 zones work although how much less than 200 ft^2 is important here since the smallest steam boilers are around 250 ft^2

i wonder if that condensate tank was their way of solving the water exiting the boiler because of that header. and possibly condensate stacking up behind the zone valve. if the motor died it almost certainly wasn't working right.

Imagine 120 years BEFORE the civil war.

Are you replacing the boiler or trying to make that one work? I am guessing the returns in the crawl space rotted out and they used hoses?

The biggest headache is to decide what to do about zoning or not zoning. Until that question is solved you can't really decide anything else.

I would suspect like all churches they don't want to keep the church that warm when unoccupied.

Most steam systems with a boiler feed tank put the MU water into the feed tank and not the boiler. i guess that is what they were trying for but that little tank is hardly a feed tank.

Not a pro — so no comment except… mercy.

With the boiler being that much oversized you probably smart to change it out.

If the run is not too long maybe a HW zone off the steamer would work for the offices. But if not much load electric you can't beat the simplicity and lack of needed maintenance.

Please do not yell;

I am speaking here as a homeowner with a coal fired boiler heating system and paraphrasing what Brother Jamie has said "Mercy Me, YUCK!!!!!!!!!!"

As you are in an area where Anthracite rice coal can be obtained easily, your heating system can be upgraded with a dual fuel EFM DF520 coal stoker set up for steam heating with some work and reconnect/replace the missing radiators to replace that abomination in my opinion as a lay person.

The EFM DF520 coal stoker boiler has a 3 inch tapping in the steam chest and two 2 inch returns for hydronic heating.

Again I am speaking as a homeowner having grown up with one pipe steam heat; a 3 inch double header coming off the riser in the steam chest makes a great deal more sense with that mess as the 3 inch drop header transitioning to a 4 inch header pipe then rising to meet the existing piping would make much more sense and allow the entire church to be heated eliminating all that excess piping and making a cleaner installation.

You apparently have at least 24 inches in open space above the existing boiler for a double drop header with a drain back to the boiler Hartford loop so it would be an ideal installation to create very dry steam.

The EFM DF520 can be equipped with a dual fuel heating system where I believe natural gas can be the dual fuel used rather than oil.

I am making the popcorn with olive oil and will pass it around here as I wait and see what happens next.

It may be well worth the phone call to EFM in Emmaus, Pa and ask about adding a second riser to the DF520 boiler to increase the steam output more quickly to a double drop header to replace that mess.

Please do not yell.

Dear Mr. Boan, the Anthracite coal stoker boilers and furnaces burn cleanly with no smoke and create very high heat per pound of Rice Anthracite Coal. I wish we had access to more friable Sub Bituminous coal from Wyoming or Montana as these coals provide clean heat with very little ash.

How does replacing the boiler fix the returns, or pump? What does the "evaluation of the system" mean. right now does it heat the building? Banging on Service days? What is the chief complaint to warrant replacement? Yes, I can see how botched the header is but easily fixable

The riser and header looks to be 4" from photos with a pair of 3" (2 1/2"?)zone valves. Flange is 8 bolts -(3" is usually 4) bushing on small zone and reducing heal tee on main zone can be seen

the boiler only calls for one riser 4" into a 4" barrel/header(w/ a 2" loop) this is actually a easy fix to repipe- has the boiler been working fine ? than run 3" to the existing 6" main and run 2" to the 3" main for your offices (200sq EDR)-

if they are really happy using electric in the office - connect the riser/zone it as a back up into the new header with a manual valve (remove the zone valves)

As far as sizing goes- over sized yeah,sure it is, but they lowered the input (nozzle) / don't forget to see how much bare steel in the crawlspace you have the bare 6" ,5" 4" adds up quick - quicker than your 1.33 pick up factor. Usually the friable was removed and not replaced with anything - Plenty of extra bare piping in every church we ever worked in - (not agreeing with the oversizing of the / a boiler,not sticking up for the replacing contractor) . In agreement with Edtheheaterman plenty of spaces in church where the pipes/rads/vents/traps are hidden !

Give them steps to repair/revise - Step 1-pipe returns gravity- see if it works properly - Step 2 lose the hoses - etc,etc,etc Clearly replacing the 905 with a MST is not fixing the rest of the mess- header has to get fixed whether this one stays or goes- When the 905 rots out replace it with your boiler of choosing-

or they can burn coal……..

About 120 years before the Civil War — around the 1740s — Virginia was the largest and wealthiest British colony in North America. It was very different from New Jersey in both geography and society. Virginia in that era was dominated by:

• tobacco plantations,
• river transportation,
• slavery,
• and a powerful landowning class that would later produce many of America’s founders.

At that time, “Virginia” was enormous. It technically claimed land stretching far west beyond the Appalachian Mountains into territory that later became:

• Kentucky,
• West Virginia,
• and parts of the Midwest.

What Virginia looked like in the 1740s

Most settlement was concentrated along:

• the Chesapeake Bay,
• the James River,
• the York River,
• and the Rappahannock River.

Transportation was mainly by water because roads were terrible. Wealthy plantation owners often traveled by boat directly to neighboring plantations or port towns.

Instead of dense towns, Virginia had:

• scattered plantations,
• small tobacco ports,
• courthouses,
• taverns,
• churches,
• and tiny villages.

There were very few true cities:

• Williamsburg was the colonial capital,
• Norfolk was an important port,
• Fredericksburg was growing,
• Richmond barely existed yet.

And that church was not even built yet. the congregation was just forming and were meeting in a small wooden church in 1740. They didn't start building that stone church until 7 years later.

All this imagining has made me tired. I'm going to bed now!

For what it's worth, anthracite coal truly does burn smokeless and relatively clean. Much of people's recollections of "dirty smoke" is from the other coal families, like bituminous. I'm not expert, but all coal is not created equal.

And Leon, it seems if they have the money to run electric heaters then they probably aren't ultra concerned about the money coal would save them as it involves a small portion of maintenance and possibly hassle with the township. We shall keep this aspect of our old fashioned ways unto ourselves, as it truly isn't the right fit for everyone in this day and age.

There’s one in the old folks’ home library where my son and daughter put me out to pasture. But don’t ask me anything about President Kennedy or later — the encyclopedia doesn’t go that far. Stops an Eisenhower!

is the header kit going to help you, will it put the risers to the mains and the return and the vent where you need them or will you end up replacing most of it with different fittings and nipples anyhow?