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near toilet floor constantly wet

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azward
azward Member Posts: 52

the bathroom floor behind the toilet is constantly wet along the tile joints. what could be leaking?

IMG20260201210636.jpg IMG20260201210554.jpg
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Comments

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,767

    More pictures all around toilet.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,291

    it could be the seal to the closet flange or it could be the tank to bowel gasket or the washers on the tank bolts. or the supply line. or something in the wall. you need to get back there and look at where it is coming from.

    cm6230
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,167

    There's a commonly overlooked source: condensation. If the relative humidity is high enough — unlikely in the winter, but not impossible — condensation can form on the tank from the cold water coming in and then drip down on the floor. I've had that happen.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mattmia2ethicalpaulcm6230
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,291

    in winter the incoming water is the coldest so if you get a warm day or otherwise suddenly get a lot of humidity, the water is still cold but the humidity shoots up any at least here you get the most sweating of the tank in the winter and early spring

    ethicalpaul
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,247

    Specific Men / Boys using the toilet a lot?

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    HomerJSmithazward
  • pumpcontrolguy
    pumpcontrolguy Member Posts: 21

    I've replaced many dozens of toilets in a former life. Seeing that moisture pattern and assuming you already ruled out the supply line leaking

    -Tank to bowl ring gasket or bolt gaskets leaking

    -condensation around tank dripping down, generally more common in summer in spaces without AC

    -leaking wax ring and water seeping under tiles but coming up through grout joints

    bjohnhyRTW
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 1,094

    Is the house on a slab? Looks like an under floor leak. It looks dry around the toilet .

    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,969

    @azward "What could be leaking?"

    The packing nut on the service valve.

    The closet riser/supply tube suppling water to the toilet.

    The tank to bowl bolts are loose.

    The tank to bowl washers used with the same bolts are worn out.

    The flush valve spud gasket between the tank and bowl.

    Condensation build up on the toilet.

    The thoughts above can commonly be checked visually.

    Below are not usually visible.

    The next is the wax gasket that cannot be seen between the floor and the toilet.

    Rarely the toilet could be cracked. I mention this here because a crack is not always visible.

    If any of the above are not found, a rebuild with the above parts should eliminate the leak.

    As what @HomerJSmith says above. "More pictures all-around."

    mattmia2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,247

    @azward take pictures of the underside of the tank where it bolts to the bowl. Take pictures of both sides, clearly showing the bolts sticking out.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,767
    edited February 3

    Do the wet finger test. What's the wet finger test, you ask? Run a dry finger under the tank where it meets the bowel. If your finger comes up wet, you're honing in on the source of your concern.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,992

    connection from the storage tank to the toilet

    Water inlet

    You need to look under the tank

  • azward
    azward Member Posts: 52

    Thanks all your inputs.

    Will take more photos around the toilet.

    The humidity stays around 36% so it's not too wet. Will do the finger test.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,247
    edited February 5

    36% at 70F is a dew point of around 40, so even really cold water probably wouldn't cause much if any condensation.

    I'd take pictures with my phone my self. I don't like reaching under toilets blindly. 😉

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    mattmia2bjohnhy
  • pumpcontrolguy
    pumpcontrolguy Member Posts: 21

    A piece of paper towel works great in areas you can't see well, it's immediately obvious if you've hit moisture with it

    mattmia2HomerJSmithPC7060
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,771

    agree although I use toilet papers, readily available and show wet spots quicker.

  • azward
    azward Member Posts: 52

    Thanks for all your posts. The perimeter of the toilet base is dry. I also placed some tissue paper behind the toilet, it didn't show drippings after several days. The water inlet and connection area felt dry. So the water is likely weeping from beneath. What pipes are down there?

    IMG20260207171732.jpg IMG20260207171634.jpg IMG20260207171557.jpg IMG20260207171542.jpg IMG_0750.JPG IMG_0747.JPG
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,291

    is there a drop coming off the bottom of that loop on the supply line? it is either coming from there or inside the wall to the right

    HomerJSmith
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,167

    But not from below the floor. I have yet to see a leak flow up hill…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mattmia2
  • Jon_blaney
    Jon_blaney Member Posts: 335

    Replace the supple line. Get one the right length. Friend flooded her whole house when that white nut cracked. Rust and deposits, leaking for a while.

    azward
  • pumpcontrolguy
    pumpcontrolguy Member Posts: 21
    leak path.jpg

    sounds like this isn't the active source of your water but make sure you're tight here too

  • pumpcontrolguy
    pumpcontrolguy Member Posts: 21

    since you don't see any leaks from above, my next steps would be to pull the toilet and see if the wax ring had failed. If it had, great you found your problem. Clean the flange and toilet base and redo. If not, it's time to start thinking about what's in the wall behind

    RTWbjohnhy
  • azward
    azward Member Posts: 52

    i'm considering starting from the wall, because changing toilet takes only hours, but without toilet for days is inconvenient

  • epmiller
    epmiller Member Posts: 48

    Changing the wax ring is a 15 minute job unless it's your first one. I stock several different thicknesses of wax ring and a non-wax seal or two so I don't spend a lot of time running for parts. If you don't know what you need you will have a run to the hardware store after you take it off. To me, what I see in the pictures had me thinking wax ring immediately. If you get one of those non-wax seals, while they are more expensive, they are easy for someone who isn't familiar with the job to get it right the first time. Just FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS on the box.

    bjohnhy
  • azward
    azward Member Posts: 52

    if the ring is leaking, why is the perimeter of the toilet base not wet?

    mattmia2Grallert
  • epmiller
    epmiller Member Posts: 48

    @azward It appears that you have tile and grout there. Water follows grout lines, it doesn't permeate a glazed tile and so the tile doesn't look wet. Unless the seal has failed catastrophically there's only a little water leaking at each flush and it follows the grout lines as the path of least resistance, it won't necessarily flood out over the surface of the tiles. Back when I was on a maintenance crew and saw situations like your picture shows I did the "wet finger" test underneath the tank and checked the supply line for leaks but it usually was the wax ring.

    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,291

    dry it out and see if it starts from the wall or the supply line. put a rag or paper towel in the path so you can figure out which way it is going. i suspect the 2 supply lines screwed together may be leaking at that joint or the tubing itself is leaking, dripping there, and collecting in the corner if the corner is slightly lower.

    4GenPlumber
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 1,094

    Is this the same building as your other post? If this was on a slab I'd have guessed a leak in the slab floor soaking through the mortar. But I would guess there is a leak in the wall behind the toilet.

    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,969

    Sometimes this type of leak is not visible. They can be very faint.

    This is the reason for this attached post. Fixing all above the floor first, as there can be multiple issues here.

    If that doesn't work and the leak persists, then you pull the toilet, check the flange and replace the wax gasket and bolts.

    If all of this doesn't work, and this one is rare, replace the toilet.

    If the leak is not obvious this is what is recommended. Otherwise you will be chasing a leak or fixing one while unknowing creating another.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,291

    since it is in your own home you can dry things up and make a barrier on the floor to figure out where it is coming from. this would be more difficult for a professional that would only be there a couple hours trying to track it down

  • azward
    azward Member Posts: 52

    now i would bet it's very likely the shower. the shower stall is to the right hand side of the toilet (facing toilet)

    this is a photo of the wall in the boiler room, right behind the shower area. it's constantly sweating. now connecting the two areas together, it's very likely the shower water supply tubing, or the drain pipe is leaking

    to crack things open, where should I start?

    image.png
    Grallert
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 1,094

    It's not uncommon for the shower valve to leak. Not sure what kind of valve you have but I'd check there first. It's the easiest to check and repair.

    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver

    Larry Weingarten
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 1,292

    The leak could also be from a failed shower pan.


    Bburd
    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,291

    the handles for the shower controls need to be sealed one way or another to keep water splashed on it from running inside the wall, either by the valve body being sealed to the tile or by the cover being sealed to the tile. a lot of less than competent installers miss this. it could also be failure of the shower pan or the tile.

  • azward
    azward Member Posts: 52

    do you mean the drain needs plumber putty to be replenished?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,291

    it depends on what kind of shower pan it is. if it is a formed fiberglass pan then any leak is likely from somewhere up higher unless it is cracked or the drain is loose. they were thinking of a tile shower floor with a copper, pvc, lead, or hot mopped tar pan under it.

    bburd
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,767

    @azward sez,"…changing toilet takes only hours, but without toilet for days is inconvenient".

    There 's always the Great Outdoors. That's why they call it great.

    It could be the two bolts that hold the tank to the base. The seal washer inside the tank could be the problem, the supply line to the tank could be dripping. Maybe a bad flush valve.

    If you dry the floor with a hair dryer and not use the toilet. does it leak. If no, it could be the trap seal or a defect (crack) in the trap ceramic on the underside of the base. Every time you flush the toilet the leak appears.

    Toilets are cheap, replacing it might be your only option.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,247

    I guess there's cheap toilets, and they are usually less than great.

    Then there's decent toilets, and they aren't exactly cheap and then there's really good toilets…..

    I'd expect to pay $400-800 for a decent toilet with tax etc.

    My problem with pulling a toilet is I know without a doubt I'm not going to be happy with what's under it and it turns into a whole day ordeal.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    mattmia2SuperTech
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,767

    Toilets have flush ratings. Costco has reasonable toilets.

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,167

    I had a really weird one once — a flush valve (antique!) which sprayed a little water onto the tank lid. Which then flowed along the lid to the rim of the lid outside the tank itself, and then dripped onto the floor behind the toilet, but not right away when you flushed.

    Took a while to track that one down…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Larry Weingartenmattmia2PC7060
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,247

    A flush valve?

    I've seen ball cocks and other fill valves do it but a flush valve is odd. Was it the ball and rid style? Or the really old bell siphon?

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    mattmia2