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Bad press for Petro

DanHolohanDanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,928
"By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand."
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Comments

  • Sal SantamauraSal Santamaura Member Posts: 206
    This thread might get moved to the CO category if he keeps running that oven for heat.
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,928
    I thought it was electric.
    "By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand."
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 6,957
    When our 4 month old American Standard steam boiler dryfired in 1974, on New Year’s Day, it was zero outside. It took 10 days to get the sections replaced. The LWCO had been desensitized, and we had waterline problems, due to improper dry return piping.
    There are 7 apartments here and all the tenants moved out for the duration. My wife and I stayed, and kept all the taps and toilets running. We only lost one of the radiators, which had been turned off.
    We also kept all the stoves and ovens on. Ice built up an inch thick on the inside of the windows. At least we had hot water, but it was a mad dash after the shower to get dressed.
    We didn’t know about carbon monoxide then, and kept our 8 month old daughter next to the oven for warmth. Luckily our 1885 house is not air tight, and so no ill effects, unless you count the many hours I have spent here!!—NBC
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,928
    Gosh.
    "By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand."
  • Harvey RamerHarvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,054
    In the comments I read a glowing referral to National grid and free gas boilers that never run out of fuel regardless of the weather.

    No disaster slips past the opportunists.
    Ramer Mechanical
    ramermechanical.com
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 7,789

    In the comments I read a glowing referral to National grid and free gas boilers that never run out of fuel regardless of the weather.



    No disaster slips past the opportunists.

    They may not completely run out -- but i can think of a number of threads on here, never mind real world scenarios, where people have run out of heat because of low gas pressure... but they don't mention that, do they?
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,928
    No, they don’t, Jamie. Many commercial-gas customers back up with fuel oil during the coldest times when the gas pressure drops.
    "By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand."
  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Member Posts: 1,837
    It's even worse. Nat gas pounds the people with 'switch over to gas it's cheaper', even though they don't have the capacity during peak demand.
    Then they switch their commercial accounts (interruptibles) over to heating oil, driving up the price and causing a temporary shortage when people need it most. This makes people think 'oil is too high' and 'I'm switching over to gas in the spring', etc.
    Win-win for the gas company. An unfair loss for everyone else. The more market share gas takes, the more the consumer will lose.
    Sadly oil tries, but doesn't have aggressive marketing to bring the other side to the people.
    steve
  • Robert O'BrienRobert O'Brien Member Posts: 2,965
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 832
    @Dan Holohan I'd think it would be easier and more cost effective to keep L.P. as back up to NG.
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,928
    @Solid_Fuel_Man, it could be, but I think it depend on where you live.
    "By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand."
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 7,789

    @Dan Holohan I'd think it would be easier and more cost effective to keep L.P. as back up to NG.

    Around where we are -- northwestern CT, Dutchess County NY and that area -- the LP guys are having a worse time filling their orders than the oil guys. Who are having a bad enough time. But we're managing... so far.
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 3,524
    MA. (figures, who else) will not allow propane and NG in the same building without "special Permission"

    I always like the idea of oil and propane because you have some fuel stored on site.
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 3,524
    What crap.

    I am sure in a normal winter their drivers work 8 hours and they have enough drivers and trucks to get the job done. Yes, I delivered oil myself years ago and yes, the bad weather and cold and snow & ice slows down deliveries, un shoveled side walks and ice to pull a hose on isn't easy. And yes trucks breakdown in the cold as well.........

    But get this poor guy some oil!!!
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,928
    Yes, yes, yes.
    "By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand."
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Member Posts: 988
    Star Gas is too busy devouring over acquisitions and the bottom line to care about people like Mr. Lima.
  • ZmanZman Member Posts: 3,843
    I know it is harder to find but a couple tanks of LNG would do the trick.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 832
    As @EBEBRATT-Ed suggested having fuel on site is what solves this. That (as I see it) is the real drawback of NG. At least if you loose power you can make your own with an ample size generator.
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
  • lchmblchmb Member Posts: 2,644
    I agree their should be no excuse for an auto customer who purchased in advance to go cold. The problem I see is will call customer's who "price shop" then call in the day they need delivery. I'm sorry, this man should come first and you'll have to wait while I take care of my regulars... IMHO...
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 11,682

    Sadly oil tries, but doesn't have aggressive marketing to bring the other side to the people.

    From what I've seen, they aren't even trying. When we routinely see stuff like this-

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/146509/serviced-every-year-we-were-speechless

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/132567/one-of-the-worst-maintained-oil-fired-boilers-weve-seen

    it's no wonder people switch to gas.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • RobertRobert Member Posts: 161
    After just getting through two weeks of subzero weather, the only shortages I have heard about were propane. The oil companies stayed really busy, but I have not heard of any problems.
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 7,789
    Robert said:

    After just getting through two weeks of subzero weather, the only shortages I have heard about were propane. The oil companies stayed really busy, but I have not heard of any problems.

    true here, too -- northwestern Connecticut
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • Sal SantamauraSal Santamaura Member Posts: 206

    This thread might get moved to the CO category if he keeps running that oven for heat.

    I thought it was electric.

    I'm not sure now; might have been a mistake on my part. Unfortunately, it's currently impossible to check, since the link to that article no longer works. Even Google cache won't bring up a record of it.
  • Dave0176Dave0176 Member Posts: 745
    It’s a really hard sell to keep oil and replace with another oil fired system. When PSE&G Nat gas prices are about $.74 cents for a Therm and oil is around $2.80 to $3.00 a gallon and rising again it’s a hard sell. Plus couple that with basically a mandatory burner service every year (funny but it’s hit or miss weather the oil companies actually do a good job of cleaning) it’s more expense.

    As @Steamhead has said I seen first hand what low gas pressure is like, on the coldest day of 2016 when we went below 0 I had just finished putting a new boiler in and knew something was wrong with the fire, a quick test with a manometer showed manifold gas pressure at about 2.05” WC called PS they tell me they only guarantee 4” supply, however we weren’t even getting that, supply was only around 3.20 WC.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating & Cooling 732-266-5386
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving most of NJ
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter




    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 3,524
    Natural gas companies in some areas have WAY overextended their distribution systems especially in areas with older piping.

    Some won't believe me but the reason they can't increase the pressure in areas with old low pressure piping is because their underground piping Leaks. Raise the pressure and give away free gas. Hello West Hartford Ct. wit 4-5" wc

    I have never known an oil company that would let customers tanks run dry as long as they could pay for the oil. All the cold weather delivery issues aside (and their are many) most all oil companies will step up and run their trucks and drivers when they have to to get the oil delivered.

    This poor guy above.....just don't know what that oil company is thinking. Bad press for them. Hope everyone quits them and gets another oil co
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 7,789

    ...
    I have never known an oil company that would let customers tanks run dry as long as they could pay for the oil. All the cold weather delivery issues aside (and their are many) most all oil companies will step up and run their trucks and drivers when they have to to get the oil delivered.

    This poor guy above.....just don't know what that oil company is thinking. Bad press for them. Hope everyone quits them and gets another oil co

    Surely is true around here (Litchfield County, CT). I was talking with one of the drivers who delivers our oil. He told me the trucks were running 24/7, and the drivers were running out their regulatory time limits on a routine basis. But they got the job done.

    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,928
    How about the homeowners who don’t clear the deep snow from the fill pipe.
    "By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand."
  • BobCBobC Member Posts: 4,736
    One problem I see in my area is finding someone who cleans an oil boiler the right way, All to often all they do is change the nozzle and filter, then they turn on the soot sucked but don't bother putting the vac nozzles anywhere near the boiler. As a result the boiler just gets dirtier and dirtier.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 7,789

    How about the homeowners who don’t clear the deep snow from the fill pipe.

    Or, half the time, even know where it is... the other day after that heavy snow I was chatting with one of the drivers; he said that more than half the fill pipes hadn't been shoveled out. His language was not suitable for a family forum like this...
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,928
    Yes.
    "By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand."
  • mikeg2015mikeg2015 Member Posts: 331
    You just need to live in a town with a huge industrial user and a town population that’s 1/2 it’s peak 40 years ago.
  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Member Posts: 1,837
    edited January 14

    How about the homeowners who don’t clear the deep snow from the fill pipe.

    People do that? Lol
    I've started delivering oil in 1983. Just last week was the first time ever someone shoveled a path to the oil fill.

    Regarding oil supply, in Philly there's a huge problem with supply. Lots of allocation shortages with refineries running out by noon-not resetting until midnight. Out of the 6 locations I can load, thru 3 suppliers as of yesterday:
    1 location down for repairs.
    1 location no heating oil until Monday for all suppliers.
    1 location runs out everyday as mentioned.
    2 locations, supplier hasn't had any for 4 weeks.

    I'm down to grabbing a load early morning, hitting all the autos, some will calls, and leaving a little for an emergency-cant take on new customers. I usually can't get a second load-and we finally have a cold winter.

    Regarding companies like Petro (most of them) they aggressively go after customers and market share (greedy) that when it gets this cold, they can't keep up. The send their service guys out, loaded with 5 gallon cans-dropping 5-10 gallons and starting heaters. What a dumb way to do business.
    It's my easiest way to pick up new business-when I can get product. Get a 1000 customers signed up, lose 300-400 due to poor service-they're still ahead. Maybe they're smart and I'm dumb.

    Specifically regarding the customer not getting oil, there's definately more to the story and I'd guess it has something to do with his free LIHEAP oil (crises grant) from the gov't, which can't be applied to a previous balance. That program has a lot of bureaucracy red tape, combined with the super cold weather, and the h/o waiting until he was almost empty-all working against him. The homeowner himself could run out and start tipping 5 gal cans of diesel into his tank too.

    steve
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 11,682
    BobC said:

    One problem I see in my area is finding someone who cleans an oil boiler the right way, All to often all they do is change the nozzle and filter, then they turn on the soot sucked but don't bother putting the vac nozzles anywhere near the boiler. As a result the boiler just gets dirtier and dirtier.

    Bob

    Like this:

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/164295/over-fired-3-pass-boiler

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • GWGW Member Posts: 2,834
    edited January 15
  • jumperjumper Member Posts: 1,102
    This week FERC shot down US DOE on the notion that prudence requires coal fired electricity with ninety day supply of fuel on site or nukes with years' fuel supply. When it's cold NG can run short or be undeliverable. Toronto,Canada lost electricity for weeks in the cold of winter. Really a public health issue. Electric utilities' growing dependance on wind & NG is dangerous.
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 7,789
    jumper said:

    ...Electric utilities' growing dependance on wind & NG is dangerous.

    And not good for the environment, nor the people, nor... just plain stupid and shortsighted. Another one of those "don't get me going"s....

    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • BobCBobC Member Posts: 4,736
    Nothing wrong with people freezing in their homes as long as there is money to be made.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • brandonfbrandonf Member Posts: 28
    My little State getting some attention.....lol Petro is a hit or miss company. This Thread has literally opened my eyes to problems with natural gas that I've ever knew. Can it really get to a low pressure like that? My boiler and stove are both Natural Gas and one day two weeks ago I was cooking and noticed that all my burners had excessive orange in the flames. It started turning my pots and pans black on the bottom so it definitely wasn't getting full combustion. Then it was fine the next day. My friend works for the gas company here I think I'm going to have to start picking his brain a little more about the issues. I lightly smell gas outside on the sidewalk from time to time. And he told me the gas company will not fix outside leaks unless they make their way inside. They don't want to spend the money. I never thought that natural gas pressure could vary that much. And my building has a fairly large main coming in since it is mixed-use commercial. 2-2.5" pipe coming into the basement.
  • NY_RobNY_Rob Member Posts: 847
    brandonf said:

    This Thread has literally opened my eyes to problems with natural gas that I've ever knew. Can it really get to a low pressure like that? My boiler and stove are both Natural Gas and one day two weeks ago I was cooking and noticed that all my burners had excessive orange in the flames. It started turning my pots and pans black on the bottom so it definitely wasn't getting full combustion. Then it was fine the next day.

    We also noticed orange flames on our stove top burners one night last week... that same day my mod-con had a "Flame has Extinguished 5 Times" error. In the 1.5yrs I've had that boiler I've never had that error. We don't have super high pressure here to begin with at 5.8" WC static on commissioning in June (when demand is low), so we may have experienced a low pressure episode last week too.

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