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What am I doing wrong

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Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,392
    maybemark said:

    thanks kurt
    how many btus should I be looking for?

    You might look at the Jaga radiators also. They have some with and "Enhanced Boost Feature" basically some small quiet muffin fans to force convection. They mount inside on top or under some of their rads and finned convectors. They dramatically increases output if you have space restrictions for adding rads.

    Need to calculate the load carefully on a room like that, then get enough heat emitters to get the job done.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyZUkclqmYc
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    I know I have the heat loss, i think i gave the radiator sizes to Gordy (I think), but why should he have kept them, I know i didn't
    the heat loss on the living room is someplace above, I'll give it to you again
    15,565 heat loss
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Living Room:
    142.8 SF EDR. 21420 BTUS at 180* water
    84.0 SF EDR 12600 BTUS

    Hall
    30 SF EDR 4500 BTUS

    Dining RM
    51 SF EDR 7650 BTUS

    M.Bed
    39 SF EDR 5850 BTUS

    Bed 2
    30 SF EDR 4500 BTUS

    M.Bath
    21 SF EDR 3150 BTUS

    Kitchen
    58.74 SF EDR 8811 BTUS
    74.76 SF EDR 11214 BTUS Figured these at 20" tall

    Office
    48 SF EDR 7200 BTUS

    Powder RM
    17.5 SF EDR 2625 BTUS

    2nd Floor
    Kitchen
    60 SF EDR 9000 BTUS

    Bed 100.8 SF EDR 15120 BTUS

    Dining
    29.37 SF EDR 4405.5 BTUS

    Living RM
    60.62 SF EDR 9093 btus
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    Might want to keep that with the boiler info Mark.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Now do you have the heat loss yet? Put that with the boiler info to. You have double the radiation for the heat loss.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Yes, if you have the heat loss calc for each of those rooms you can see how under-radiated the living room is compared with the other rooms. We can also get an ODR target temp for the house.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Some where Kurt you did an Radiation to heat loss survey...........last year.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    I,seem to remember that it was not balanced obviously.
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    Gordy
    thank you very much for putting that on the site, I wouldn't have thought you still had it
    have a good turkey day
    Tinman
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    May all the people that has helped me, and all the others that learned and read this post, hope all have a good turkey day
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Your welcome Mark have some turkey, and relax. Just think if this rain were snow we would be up to almost 2' ,
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    Gordy
    No plans for me today, except icing my knee.
    It rained early this morning, but not raining now
    Eat some extra turkey for me
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    both my sensor and my kitchen outdoor thermometer are the same 56 degrees
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    the Jaga radiator looks pretty interesting. I didn't find any prices for them, but i did not look very hard
    Anyone else have a panel radiator company in mind for me to check out?
    I have 2 walls 30" wide and alot of height on both sides of the radiator box in the living room
    I can invision a radiator on both side of that grill of the old radiator that is doing diddly for the living room
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    I suspect those bay window radiators may originally have been exposed, and so heated the room nicely.

    I don't see your heat loss info here, but if you can provide those numbers for a few rooms we can help you figure out what you might need there.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,611
    Runtal makes a nice low profile radiator.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    Runtal was the name of the modern day radiator that i was trying to remember.
    I've seen them on a job that i was doing maybe 10 years ago
    thanks
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    the vertical runtals look fine
    how many btu's would i be looking for the living room?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    I can't seem to find an online source for the vertical runtals. I would like to get an idea how much they cost
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    I guess before I look for the radiator, I should know how many btu's I need ,this would make a difference on me getting a price
    SWEI
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    A properly sized radiator will also work better. Once you balance the system, the difference between room temps will drop significantly.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,611
    Take the heat loss for the room and match it to the radiator. Since you are going to be running low water temps you will need to derate the radiators according to the manufactures data. If memory serves me, the runtal at 120 is a multiplier of roughly 0.4.
    If you are keeping the existing rads, it is a bit more complicated. You need to look at the EDR of the existing compared to the heat loss.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    SWEIGordy
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    Should I keep the radiators, or just turn them off?
    they are doing a little good as far as heating the room, just not alot of good.
    but, since it is helping some, and i think i remember it's better to be over radiant, for this system.
    not sure what to do
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    In order to balance the system and maximize efficiency, you want all the rooms to be similarly over-radiated.

    If you have the heat loss figures for the living room and a couple of others, we can get you close with a Runtal or Myson vertical panel radiator. I would supplement the existing rads and not turn them off. Bay windows are large heat sinks.
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    Kurt
    The living room is 15,565 heat loss
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Heat loss for some rooms that are heating well right now?


    thanks~
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    my bedroom 6279 i had to turn down the valve on the radiator
    and now after several days, the kitchen is doing much better
    7351 and office 4266
    thanks kurt
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Living Room and Kitchen have two radiators each?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    yes, but the kitchen is open to my office, that would make 3 radiators. but even with the 3 radiators, the living room radiators are much larger
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    right now, my kitchen is 71 f
    and living room is 71
    and bedroom is 73, and that room I turned the valve way down
    I appears, the longer i am running the boiler it is getting more balanced (if that's at all possible)
    also,
    also, it's been unseasonably war the last few days. right now it's 58 outside
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Something isn't adding up quite right -- here are the BTU/ft² requirements I get for those rooms:

    Living Room 15,565 BTU/hr from 226.8 ft² = 68.6 BTU/ft²
    Kitchen 7,351 BTU/hr from 133.5 ft² = 55 BTU/ft²
    MBDR 6,279 BTU/hr from 39 ft² = 161 BTU/ft²

  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,611
    Kurt,
    I think the square footage numbers are the surface area of the rads rather than the floor.
    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Correct those numbers are sf of edr. Output Based on 180 swt.
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    The living room has 13 foot ceilings the rest of the house is 8'6" ceiling, cubic footage is differnt
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Mark the sf of each room with the heatloss would help calculate btus per sf required for the room. Then you compare btus available from existing radiation. To btus needed from the heatloss
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Example:

    If your radiator has an output of 15000 btus. The room it serves is 300 sf or 10x30 then that equates to 50 btus a sf.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    If the rooms heatloss is 25 btus a sf then you have twice the radiation needed to cover the load. So your swt goes down because the edr output is based on 180 swt,
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Correct, though I was actually looking at BTU per square foot of EDR in order to determine required water temps.
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    I can get the sq footage, that's not a problem
    doesn't the high ceiling in the living room have anything to do with heating that room properly?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
    living room 266 sq ft
    bedroom 156 sf
    kitchen 231 sf

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