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Re: Varivalve heatimer clogging
We've had horrible experiences with hundreds of Vari-valves. The bellows disconnects from its top mounting causing the pin to fall into the orifice closing it forever. Of several hundred we installed in one year some 20 years ago, perhaps 20% failed in the first year and another 20% over the following years. Heat-timer wouldn't even discuss the problem, no less make good on their flawed product.
Put a Gorton C or D vent on it and be done with it all.
Put a Gorton C or D vent on it and be done with it all.
Re: How small can you go for a steam boiler?
I might add -- as a VERY general comment, not confined to heating at all, but applying to life in general -- doing the right thing for the wrong reason is never defensible; nor is doing the wrong thing for the right reason. The general rubric is "the end never justifies the means". Each action must be justified on its own merits.
Also a wildly unpopular opinion these days.
Also a wildly unpopular opinion these days.
Re: Another discussion about steam boiler sizing
I love reading these stories of guys that will experiment with their heating systems just to see what they can do or what they can accomplish. Since the company I worked only did schools, hospitals and industrial steam, with pressures to 300 psi and inputs up to 30,000,000 btu's I have little experience working or sizing residential systems. That said, I can tell you guys what an undersized steam boiler will do in a large building like a nursing home that has no control valves on the radiation. The job consisted of 2 low pressure steam boilers that the heating engineer undersized due to his stupidity. I started these 2 units and adjusted the input to 100%. With the outside temp at 30F, 1 boiler running all day would not heat all the building. All the radiation on the outside perimeter of the building and being the furthest from the boiler never even got warm and the radiation closest to the boiler room overheated. The steam only heated the radiators until it was exhausted and condensed with no more steam for the rest of the radiation. The only way that building would get warm was to run both boilers all the time or at least until they caught up with the steam load. Of course, there is much more to my story but you get the picture.
Re: Commercial water heating, storage tank vs indirect
Hi, As a very general rule, anything that has storage will give less temperature fluctuation than any sort of on demand approach... assuming the storage is correctly sized for the load. This matters for showers, where people will feel a one degree change, less so for other uses. Not sure that's what you were asking about though 
Yours, Larry
Yours, Larry
Re: Commercial water heating, storage tank vs indirect
$$$
indirect tanks with a coil inside more expensive to manufacture
indirect tanks with a coil inside more expensive to manufacture
hot_rod
2
Re: Energy Kinetics and Ecobee not getting up to temperature
Thank you for your post, @mad_hat , and for everyone’s replies.
Turn on SmartBoost per the link below.
Your manager controls the temperature, and you Hydrostat (DualGard) is only a safety, and should be set at 205/215, not 190 or any other temperature.
If the burner ever turns off, then the boiler has more capacity than your baseboard can emit; look for this.
If the burner ever turns off, then the boiler has more capacity than your baseboard can emit; look for this.
Also check to see if the Ecobee thermostat light on the left side of the manager ever turns off; if it turns off, then we’ll have to figure out why.
PM me with you installation company name and location and we can coordinate with them as well.
Thank you,
Roger
Roger
Roger
3
Re: Boiler temp question
What you are describing is normal. Remember that with the system pressurized, the boiling point is much higher than 212°F.
Automobile engine cooling systems are pressurized to 15 psi and will not boil unless they exceed 260°F.
Automobile engine cooling systems are pressurized to 15 psi and will not boil unless they exceed 260°F.
bburd
1
Re: Sanden SanCO2 HPWH, adding WiFi controller
It may not be completely obvious, but... wi-fi standards (frequencies, band widths, etc.) are not universally standardized. We here in the US may think they are, but... they aren't. Canada is the only other country in the world which uses the North American standard. Nor, for that matter, are cell phones necessarily. That may be why they haven't got a US model.
Re: Sanden SanCO2 HPWH, adding WiFi controller
I have a resistor I could send you that can be wired to with a switch that spoofs a low tank sensor to the controller starting a heating cycle. I understand you're looking for a wireless option but there is no modbus connection I know of on our models to connect to, even if the wifi module worked with or 60hz mains.
Teemok
1
Re: Rheem Hybrid water heater changing operating modes on its own.
I find this topic interesting end enlightening, and like all conversations, you have to look at the big picture to see what's going on. I think Ethical Paul is assuming that every home these are placed in are old, with uninsulated basement walls and wide open expanses that are not being used for anything other than spider storage. It is implied that these HP water heaters are running on "FREE" energy, when in reality they are not. Someone paid to heat the air in the basement, especially in homes with finished basements. The rH control is a secondary sales feature that has nothing to do with the heating of DHW.
Full disclosure, I've never worked on one, but my 50 years worth of field experience tells me there a rat out there somewhere. The technicians I've spoken to that are working on them in the field tell me that these units are so incapable of handling the demands, that they spend most of their time running on the heating elements (99% efficient, not 400%) and that the mechanical room is so cold you could hang meat in it, even with a gas or oil fired boiler in the same room, so the consumer leaves the door to the mechanical room open, thereby cooling off the balance of the basement, causing the thermostat to call for heat. Tell me again how efficient these systems are?
Sometimes the Government gets a wild hair up their but and pushes an agenda without really looking at the big picture. Like CFT lighting and the associated UV radiation that is causing major failures of plastic components, including PEX tubing, solar PV with a 20% efficiency and a life expectancy that is less than required to hit an economic breakeven without significant Federal subsidies, and will have to be removed and di$po$ed of with that not being taken into consideration on the initial economics.
The equipment manufactures have no choice but to fall in line, or be over run by the competition. Then marketing gets involved, and pushes silly ideas like "FREE" energy and dehumidification to justify the additional expense. Before you hack my head of and throw it out with the wash, understand that I understand the premise of being as efficient as one can be (COP's of 3 or 4), but I also understand the connected loads (human beings), energy sources (conditioned versus non conditioned space or OSA) and the consumers willingness to stand around and wait for a slow compressor to heat their water to a temperature that they can quickly shower in, all in the name of carbon reduction.
I think one thing that really irritates me in this whole GREEEN SCENEario, is the lack of attention to Solar Thermal (60 to 80% efficient with unknown life expectancies) and NO mention of drain waste heat recovery heat exchangers, which by the way are MANDATORY in new construction in Montreal, and can reduce basic DHW heating energy by 50% (excluding solar thermal contributions) , can be employed now without the need for Federal subsidies.
Why do you think solar PV is so popular with the DOE ? Because it can spin the electrical meter backwards, which is exciting. Solar thermal can't spin the gas meter backwards. It can only stop it and that isn't as sexy as spinning a meter backwards. Bureaucrats are running the DOE. I wonder how many of them own stock in Teslas Power Wall and Solar PV systems... HP water heaters should be drawing their "FREE ENERGY
from outside the conditioned home, but that would require additional materials and labor that will jack the price of an installed system upward, affecting the economics and bottom line ROI, and the Marketing department will fight it all the way to Washington DC
I also think that ALL energy conservation products should have a "Cradle to Grave" environmental listing, that will allow the consumer to look at the options, and make an intelligent economic decision, instead of forcing subsidies down their throat with the attitude of "This is what we have to offer, take it or leave it...". We need to have a bigger voice in what the government is forcing upon us. We are ALL paying for the subsidies, wether we use it or not.
Rant over, open to civil conversations about how to REALLY reduce energy consumption, which I do believe is important, regardless of politics. Waste not, want not.
Full disclosure, I've never worked on one, but my 50 years worth of field experience tells me there a rat out there somewhere. The technicians I've spoken to that are working on them in the field tell me that these units are so incapable of handling the demands, that they spend most of their time running on the heating elements (99% efficient, not 400%) and that the mechanical room is so cold you could hang meat in it, even with a gas or oil fired boiler in the same room, so the consumer leaves the door to the mechanical room open, thereby cooling off the balance of the basement, causing the thermostat to call for heat. Tell me again how efficient these systems are?
Sometimes the Government gets a wild hair up their but and pushes an agenda without really looking at the big picture. Like CFT lighting and the associated UV radiation that is causing major failures of plastic components, including PEX tubing, solar PV with a 20% efficiency and a life expectancy that is less than required to hit an economic breakeven without significant Federal subsidies, and will have to be removed and di$po$ed of with that not being taken into consideration on the initial economics.
The equipment manufactures have no choice but to fall in line, or be over run by the competition. Then marketing gets involved, and pushes silly ideas like "FREE" energy and dehumidification to justify the additional expense. Before you hack my head of and throw it out with the wash, understand that I understand the premise of being as efficient as one can be (COP's of 3 or 4), but I also understand the connected loads (human beings), energy sources (conditioned versus non conditioned space or OSA) and the consumers willingness to stand around and wait for a slow compressor to heat their water to a temperature that they can quickly shower in, all in the name of carbon reduction.
I think one thing that really irritates me in this whole GREEEN SCENEario, is the lack of attention to Solar Thermal (60 to 80% efficient with unknown life expectancies) and NO mention of drain waste heat recovery heat exchangers, which by the way are MANDATORY in new construction in Montreal, and can reduce basic DHW heating energy by 50% (excluding solar thermal contributions) , can be employed now without the need for Federal subsidies.
Why do you think solar PV is so popular with the DOE ? Because it can spin the electrical meter backwards, which is exciting. Solar thermal can't spin the gas meter backwards. It can only stop it and that isn't as sexy as spinning a meter backwards. Bureaucrats are running the DOE. I wonder how many of them own stock in Teslas Power Wall and Solar PV systems... HP water heaters should be drawing their "FREE ENERGY
from outside the conditioned home, but that would require additional materials and labor that will jack the price of an installed system upward, affecting the economics and bottom line ROI, and the Marketing department will fight it all the way to Washington DC
I also think that ALL energy conservation products should have a "Cradle to Grave" environmental listing, that will allow the consumer to look at the options, and make an intelligent economic decision, instead of forcing subsidies down their throat with the attitude of "This is what we have to offer, take it or leave it...". We need to have a bigger voice in what the government is forcing upon us. We are ALL paying for the subsidies, wether we use it or not.
Rant over, open to civil conversations about how to REALLY reduce energy consumption, which I do believe is important, regardless of politics. Waste not, want not.
