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Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Gordy: That's exactly what I was thinking -- a chunk of removable pipe with a magnetic shell around it.
The only other thing I can think of that I would be able to implement easily with equipment I already own is this: A high flow/low head screw-on filter (such as we use on constant-duty heavy equipment cooling systems) with isolation valves and an air bleeder. I'll have to check out the actual filter specs and info, but I know they're rated up to at least 300* F and 75 psi. Just don't recall if they're paper elements or some kind of mesh. The filter adapters we use are generally piped for 1" or 1-1/4" NPT with a mounting plate, with the filter screwing on from below. The filters themselves are about 18" long and 5-6" diameter...and pretty cheap in the grand scheme.
Then again, a good dirt mag would probably be cheaper and better in the long run anyway.
I might be way out there on this one...just happened to think about it while reading through new posts. I know for a fact that despite flushing and cleaning, there's still a fair amount of crud floating through my system, and god-knows-what settled into the bottoms of my 100 year old radiators. Given the option to have one installed originally, I definitely would have...unfortunately, like many, the bulk of my HeatingHelp education came after the fact (ha).
The only other thing I can think of that I would be able to implement easily with equipment I already own is this: A high flow/low head screw-on filter (such as we use on constant-duty heavy equipment cooling systems) with isolation valves and an air bleeder. I'll have to check out the actual filter specs and info, but I know they're rated up to at least 300* F and 75 psi. Just don't recall if they're paper elements or some kind of mesh. The filter adapters we use are generally piped for 1" or 1-1/4" NPT with a mounting plate, with the filter screwing on from below. The filters themselves are about 18" long and 5-6" diameter...and pretty cheap in the grand scheme.
Then again, a good dirt mag would probably be cheaper and better in the long run anyway.
I might be way out there on this one...just happened to think about it while reading through new posts. I know for a fact that despite flushing and cleaning, there's still a fair amount of crud floating through my system, and god-knows-what settled into the bottoms of my 100 year old radiators. Given the option to have one installed originally, I definitely would have...unfortunately, like many, the bulk of my HeatingHelp education came after the fact (ha).
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
I never thought about the permanent magnet, makes sense.Out of curiosity why are ECM circulators more prone to failure due to iron oxide than traditional circulators?Conventional wet rotor circs are built using PSC motors, a type of single phase induction motor. Induction motors do not have permanent magnets in them.
DJD775
5
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Maybe magnetic dirt separators need to be a required system component like an x tank.
Are the dirt mags actually doing a good job. I mean getting iron out of a magnetic dirt sep on a system says it's working, but is it capturing everything? How many laps in a system does super fine iron oxide need to make before its trapped. Maybe more powerful magnets? Maybe a length of piping that's removable for cleaning with a magnetic shell 12" long right before the circ. Just thinking out loud of increasing magnetic surface capturing area. Vortex method is good, but I think suspended fine particals sneak by.
Are the dirt mags actually doing a good job. I mean getting iron out of a magnetic dirt sep on a system says it's working, but is it capturing everything? How many laps in a system does super fine iron oxide need to make before its trapped. Maybe more powerful magnets? Maybe a length of piping that's removable for cleaning with a magnetic shell 12" long right before the circ. Just thinking out loud of increasing magnetic surface capturing area. Vortex method is good, but I think suspended fine particals sneak by.
Gordy
5
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Out of curiosity why are ECM circulators more prone to failure due to iron oxide than traditional circulators?Conventional wet rotor circs are built using PSC motors, a type of single phase induction motor. Induction motors do not have permanent magnets in them.
SWEI
5
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
True that. PH buffers are easy and inexpensive though compared to deionization or reverse osmosis.
It's a novel thought, but I, not unlike most others I assume, don't have the time to fool with it.
It's a novel thought, but I, not unlike most others I assume, don't have the time to fool with it.
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Rain water, possibly, depending on what that rain travels thru on the way down 
Ph around 6 for average rain water, may still need to add some buffers to it.
Ph around 6 for average rain water, may still need to add some buffers to it.
hot_rod
6
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
If we started collecting rain water and using that in our systems, all these problems would go away.
But then our low water cutoffs would likely have to be rengineered.
But then our low water cutoffs would likely have to be rengineered.
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Interesting topic. The only ECM pump that's failed me so far in the last 4 years is an Alpha that took a hit from a power surge thanks to Sandy.
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
6 and 1/2 dozen of the other. Traditional circs have weaker magnets in them then the powerful ECM circs, therefore they attract less iron particles. The ECM has a higher starting torque, therefore won't get stopped by the particles as quickly.Out of curiosity why are ECM circulators more prone to failure due to iron oxide than traditional circulators?I don't think anyone has made that statement… the question was posed whether its the case.
However I'd wager "traditional" circulators are more robust to contaminants, like old CI boilers vs. Mod Cons.
The most common place that I see circs seized up is on those open, outdoor type wood boiler systems. On one such system, I have both the Alpha and the Bumblebee installed. The Alpha has seized up, the Bumblebee has not yet seized up. The Bumblebee has 2 things going for it to help address this issue. They have a screen to try to keep the particles out of the rotor and they also go to full power at startup for a brief period of time. I would contend that those features are helping.
In the meantime I keep trying to sell water quality treatments as an alternative to emergency no heat calls. Some people buy it, some don't.
I really have no idea of the PPM of iron in these systems. I'm going to start checking though because I'm curious as well.
Re: Iron Oxide Limitations With ECM Circs
Out of curiosity why are ECM circulators more prone to failure due to iron oxide than traditional circulators?I don't think anyone has made that statement… the question was posed whether its the case.
However I'd wager "traditional" circulators are more robust to contaminants, like old CI boilers vs. Mod Cons.
