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Re: DEAD WRONG
I'll take the smell of Horse Manure over Carbon Monoxide & Smog from Vehicles and trucks 🚚 any day.If you like the smell of horse poo, check out Michigan's Mackinac (pronounced MAK-ə-naw) Island. No cars or trucks allowed!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackinac_Island
Last time I was there, I sneezed the entire day. I suspect I was allergic to something in the horse's diet that went through their digestive tracks, and was then ground into a fine powder and atmospherically dispersed by hooves, bicycle tires, and touron's feet.
Green and sustainable, just like medieval Europe!
WMno57
1
Questions about heat pump water heaters?
The next Caleffi idronics, #33 does a deep dive on the topic of HPWH, pros and cons. It is in final edit, should be online in a week or so, hard copies in September.
This Thursday is the Coffee with Caleffi webinar on the topic also.
https://www.caleffi.com/usa/en-us/coffee-caleffitm-schedule
This Thursday is the Coffee with Caleffi webinar on the topic also.
https://www.caleffi.com/usa/en-us/coffee-caleffitm-schedule
hot_rod
3
Re: Sizing replacement boiler - how much over SQ FT estimate?
Unless you have tons of un-insulated pipes or mass quantities of risers running up exterior walls that aren't insulated just size to the sq. ft. rating. If you size to the sq. ft. rating, there is already a third extra boiler added in. 10 % for heating the piping and roughly 23% for coming out of a set back condition on the thermostat. Known as pick up factor.
Re: DEAD WRONG
Having just spent last weekend continuing to pipe up my new heating system for my home that I've designed to operate both as a modified minitube 2-pipe steam system, or a 2 pipe hot water system and getting the copper water lines in place, it is really clear how much easier copper piping is than threaded steel for install. 2 inch steel main with 1 1/4 to 1/2 inch branches stubbed out for the 3/8 soft copper connections gives your math and muscles both a work out. I do believe that quality work in the past required more effort than today. Our materials make it easier to do quality work, but the drive still needs to be there. I do especially believe, however, that the dead men engineers ( those prior to WW II) really knew thier fields much better than what is seen around today. Heating systems that provide exceptionally comfort and efficiency without use of any advanced electronic controls, etc. are the dead engineers legacy. The most top of mind examples for me are the large 5 story bare brick wall, single pane steel hopper windowed former manufacturing plant that Terry takes care of in Cleveland. Leaky R-1 windows, brick R-2 walls equipped with steam heating perimeter radiator system heated continuous for artist spaces that uses about the same energy per sq. foot for heating as our most efficient typical new homes. The old guys seemed to know something we haven't rediscoverd yet. The other is older Kewanee and Pacific boilers which, when reading their literature, specifically talk about the advantages of large radiant transfer surfaces in the firebox. We have taken these boilers and switched out a modern on/off gas power burner with a modulating gas radiant burner and see 30% reductions in fuel usage with similiar full fire combustion readings. Something is going on which the old engineers knew which we are missing today.
Re: Making hot water without a heat exchanger by routing combustion gas directly through water?
Have to admit that that the beauty of direct contact approaches lies in having no heat transfer problems in a heat exchanger, plus they are inherently condensing systems, so the efficiency can and indeed sould be very high. The two downsides is making sure you are getting good complete combustion --which has to be done before contact with the water -- and then the water quality which results which is likely to need tweaking.
Re: Making hot water without a heat exchanger by routing combustion gas directly through water?
There are direct fired water heaters out in the world😉One I saw had flame going down from water induced air flow. The was a heat exchanger down in the pan and directly heated water was recirculated. I forget how often recirculated water was changed. It was supposed to be super efficient at producing relatively low temperature (~100°) water.
https://www.maximizersystems.com/direct-fired-water-heaters
jumper
1
Re: Making hot water without a heat exchanger by routing combustion gas directly through water?
Hi, I seem to remember that PVI made modern day contact heaters with a 99% efficiency. It was not clear by looking on their site if they still make these contact heaters. They seem to make bigger, commercial equipment.
Yours, Larry
Yours, Larry
Re: DEAD WRONG
One thing about writing a book is that it's like giving birth to a child. Once it's done, it's out there. I wrote Lost Art 31 years ago. I thought I knew everything then. I've learned more since and I feel dumber than ever. There's always something new with the old, and age teaches humility, if you allow it to do so.
I wish I could go back 31 years and talk to that young fella who used to wear my clothes. He wasn't as smart as he thought.
I wish I could go back 31 years and talk to that young fella who used to wear my clothes. He wasn't as smart as he thought.
Re: DEAD WRONG
Steam Doctor..I can only speak for myself....it's nothing personal on my end...its philosophical debate. I commended you for your humble approach. It's appreciated. Not everyone can comport themselves this way and have an agenda.
I know a decent amount (on one hand) of excellent plumbing and heating practicioners aside from here. What you all are failing to realize is that this place is an exception to the rule. Only the best generally post their work here. The Best And Brightest comment, critique and share here. This place is a bastion of the mechanical trades ...a very special place.
I can't speak for anyone else, but my typical month brings me through every imaginable type of structure and occupancy..from High Rises in NYC, Historic Brownstones, Levitt Homes, Old Farmhouses, Housing Projects, residential apartments, Suburban homes. Industrial processing facilities, the whole 9.
Over the last 40 years in the trades I have seen a precipitous decline in Craftsmanship. I've seen very little Hack Work Pre-1970 work. Gotta keep it real. With the introduction of PVC especially, anyone with a Hacksaw and Glue began running amok. It's in inverse situation: I've seen very few Hack jobs done before that point in time and conversely, very few really nice sqaured away jobs after that point. Generally, actual Licensed plumbers and boiler guys are doing the better work, but even that is not that common, today.
I am not alone in my opinions on this, I just happen to be very vocal about it because I care deeply about it. Many who agree with me and don't care to post tell me "Why Bother...what're ya gonna do? Its over...no one cares anymore" ...et cetera.
I don't care if I'm the Last of The Mohicans...I'm going to uphold my Old School standards with modern improvements when they prove out.
Chris, it's really not very fair to disparage our tradesmen of yesteryear. You didn't know them or work alongside them, apparently. I was actually privileged to have had that honor early in my life and career. I work and see work done by today's crop as well. There ARE exceptions, of course, but fine craftsmanship is not the norm today...commercial, residential, industrial, institutionally.
So, I have worked with the Old timers and the neophytes. Most, except a small percentage, of the younger plumbers today could not hang with those guys. It gives me no pleasure to say this. It actually bothers me a great deal. When a 55 year old with a belly has to lie down in a trench, or go in to a nasty crawlspace, or unplug a backing up sewer, or climb a tall ladder, because the youngsters refuse, the generational chasm is very wide. Respectfully, Mad Dog 🐕
I know a decent amount (on one hand) of excellent plumbing and heating practicioners aside from here. What you all are failing to realize is that this place is an exception to the rule. Only the best generally post their work here. The Best And Brightest comment, critique and share here. This place is a bastion of the mechanical trades ...a very special place.
I can't speak for anyone else, but my typical month brings me through every imaginable type of structure and occupancy..from High Rises in NYC, Historic Brownstones, Levitt Homes, Old Farmhouses, Housing Projects, residential apartments, Suburban homes. Industrial processing facilities, the whole 9.
Over the last 40 years in the trades I have seen a precipitous decline in Craftsmanship. I've seen very little Hack Work Pre-1970 work. Gotta keep it real. With the introduction of PVC especially, anyone with a Hacksaw and Glue began running amok. It's in inverse situation: I've seen very few Hack jobs done before that point in time and conversely, very few really nice sqaured away jobs after that point. Generally, actual Licensed plumbers and boiler guys are doing the better work, but even that is not that common, today.
I am not alone in my opinions on this, I just happen to be very vocal about it because I care deeply about it. Many who agree with me and don't care to post tell me "Why Bother...what're ya gonna do? Its over...no one cares anymore" ...et cetera.
I don't care if I'm the Last of The Mohicans...I'm going to uphold my Old School standards with modern improvements when they prove out.
Chris, it's really not very fair to disparage our tradesmen of yesteryear. You didn't know them or work alongside them, apparently. I was actually privileged to have had that honor early in my life and career. I work and see work done by today's crop as well. There ARE exceptions, of course, but fine craftsmanship is not the norm today...commercial, residential, industrial, institutionally.
So, I have worked with the Old timers and the neophytes. Most, except a small percentage, of the younger plumbers today could not hang with those guys. It gives me no pleasure to say this. It actually bothers me a great deal. When a 55 year old with a belly has to lie down in a trench, or go in to a nasty crawlspace, or unplug a backing up sewer, or climb a tall ladder, because the youngsters refuse, the generational chasm is very wide. Respectfully, Mad Dog 🐕
Re: Trying to identify 1880s radiator
I see these all the time in NYC 5 boros...still chugging away. I have two in my own house. Don't worry you'll get "close enough for Government Work!" I commend you and your plumber for doing your homework! Is the whole house full of these? Please put pictures when done. Where is this house? Thanks Mad Dog 🐕Mad Dog -- I share your appreciation for those beautiful Walworths! I'm glad to know there are more of them still around. Our house has 7 Walworths, 5 Bundy's, an unknown column type, and an unknown tube type, all keeping us quite comfortable (except for the two in the living room, we'll have to investigate that this winter).
We live in Helena, Montana, in a red brick Victorian that hasn't had many alterations over the years; I think only 3 owners since 1885. Thanks, LizG
lizg
1