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Re: The "equalizer" is mis-named. It does nothing to equalize anything.
Every time I see this come back up to the front of the line, I laugh…. I had this debate with Paul because I learned what was in the books so long ago that it was as if that dimension "A" and the Equalizer were second nature to me. And when you know something… YOU KNOW IT!
Paul's experiment and video showed me that on a small residential system there is not much pressure drop from one end of the main to the other. That whole steam chest of the boiler pushing water out the return backwards did not need 28" of dimension "A" to force the water back into the boiler.
But if the pipes are restricted with years of sediment, and we are talking about a rather large building, then that dimension “A” can certainly help the water get back to the boiler. But when doing the testing on a small residential system, at such low pressures, that is well cared for, and probably has no sediment in any of the wet returns, then you basically have a U tube manometer with equal pressure on both ends of the main, at the boiler and past the last radiator, at the last drop into the return.
Paul finally made me change my opinion of the whole thing. Those pictures in the book are only illustrations. They did not use glass pipes and measure the pressure differences to see inside those pipes. They made educated guesses based on what they found with previous systems. Some of those systems were built before the Carbon Club members made the 1.5 PSI rule that we all use today. I might guess that 50 to 100 PSI steam might have a bit more friction traveling through some of those old steam pipes and that the dimension "A" may have been more that 28" to overcome the 2 or 3 PSI difference on those older 100 PSI systems. Ya never really know where those old beliefs, guides and rules came from, and why they are still in use today.
There is a story about how the railroad track gauge (width) is based on the Roman Chariot wheel base. As the road ways were traveled by these chariots they made groves and ruts as many carts rolled over the same path over and over. If you designed a chariot with a different wheelbase, your wheels would soon fail trying to find their way into the existing groves. If you didn't want your carts to have constant wheel failures you adopted the standard wheelbase as all the chariots. This lasted for centuries and when the railways and steam locomotives were introduced, the existing wheelbase was already an engineering standard and they had no reason to change it.
Is this truth or an old urban legend? Who knows? It is a good story to explain the odd dimension of 4' 8.5" or 143.5 cm as the standard rail gauge in the USA. Such a strange number to use. And Roman Chariots were never used in the 2 and 3 centuries in the Americas. We weren't even called the Americas yet! But you can easily fit a team of 2 horses side by side within that 4' 8.5" wheelbase so the horses didn't lose their footing in the ruts.
But now that all the tracks are 4' 8.5" wide, then all future tracks will be 4' 8.5" even if there is a better dimension for future needs. It is that way because that is the way we learned it. That weird number is kind of like Dimension “A” in all the old engineering books.
Re: The "equalizer" is mis-named. It does nothing to equalize anything.
I sort of get the feelings, without doing proper experiments, that there is one set of rules for all systems. Small residential to large commercial. Well piped, under pipe, over piped..... Take a very large commercial system, maybe under piped and with very dirty water. Good possibility there will be a significant pressure drop by the time the steam gets to the end of the main.
The "equalizer" is mis-named. It does nothing to equalize anything.
The “wet” gravity return line, which returns the condensate from the system, rises up from the floor to join with the equalizer at a point about 2 in. below the boiler’s lowest operating waterline.
2. The Dead Men didn’t always use this piping arrangement. They used to bring the return directly back into the bottom of the boiler without the benefit of either a Hartford Loop or an equalizer. When they piped a boiler this way, however, the slightest steam pressure would push water out of the boiler and into the return. They solved this problem by using a check valve in the wet return (that’s the pipe below the boiler waterline).
Before long, though, they found the check valve would fill with sediment and get stuck open. That caused the water to back out of the boiler again, so they developed the equalizer pipe to replace the check valve. Whatever pressure appears inside the boiler will appear inside the equalizer pipe — if you size the pipe properly. The two forces balance each other and the water stays in the boiler.
But for a couple years I have really struggled to understand exactly what it is doing. I couldn't picture how the equalizer actually changed anything.
My proposal here is that it does absolutely nothing to equalize anything. It does do an admirable job of letting water escape the header to improve water-steam separation, but that's it. I believe that regarding pressure, having an equalizer is no different from not having one.
See my drawing from a recent discussion I posted:
https://us.v-cdn.net/cdn-cgi/image/fit=scale-down,width=1600/https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/editor/ns/bjsfnpjxq2gk.png
In this drawing you can see the pressure at the boiler, AND at the condensation inlet is the same (if you disagree with this I would welcome to hear your thinking). So what exactly did the "equalizer" accomplish here? What else would the pressure be here, "equalizer" or not?
Now look at this drawing below showing no equalizer with the same pressures in all the same places. Do you see any flaw in this drawing? So what does the equalizer do again?
So a question: "If the 'equalizer' isn't doing anything, then why isn't the water level at the start of the wet return rising up to the main and shooting out of the main vent?"
The answer is: Because the true "equalizer" is in fact the main! It is what transmits the steam chamber's pressure to the far end of the wet return. That pressure is somewhat reduced of course by the flow of steam to the radiators, and that's why the water level at the end of the wet return rises a little, but not a lot.
Let me know if you see any errors in my thinking here, and thanks everyone (especially Dan) for teaching me about residential steam!
Re: One year old Williamson-Thermoflo heat exchanger failure
These oil furnaces have an old fashioned fan and limit operating control that cycles the blower and oil burner on and off as the furnace heats up. It's much different than the safety high limit switch on a gas furnace. That's another reason why I called BS on his "cold chimney" theory.
I didn't run the furnace long enough to get a good temperature rise measurement. As soon as I saw the combustion issue I shut it off because I was concerned about the furnace being unsafe to operate.
I should have measured TESP.
I'm not the business owner or the homeowner but I am still pissed off and disappointed with Williamson-Thermoflo/Weil McLain for not supporting their products. I've seen dozens of Thermopride oil furnaces operate in much worse conditions with poor airflow and draft and they operate flawlessly for 20, 30 even 40 years.
Re: Stadler radiant heat loop always circulating
The problem with running the radiant along with any radiator zone is that they heat differently. The radiant floor will take longer to heat the room and when the main floor thermostat is satisfied, the radiant room will not have reached setpoint.
My original suggestion to install a thermostat in the radiant room and connect it to a Taco SR501 (transformer relay) at the manifold to power the pump still holds. To prevent short cycling, don’t run the isolated end switch in the SR501 to the aquastat. There will probably be enough heat in the boiler from the other zones to heat the radiant.
And I don’t understand your logic in combining zones 2 and 3.
Re: HTP UFTC-140W Recurring Error Code 11 Issue
“Yesterday they came and inspected the flapper free of charge (per the suggestion of this forum!). The tech found that the flapper was burned in one corner”
This would definitely indicate a clogged heat exchanger since the flapper is upstream of the burner and there should be no excessive heat at that point - unless the heat exchanger is restricted.
The flapper can be removed since it’s only necessary when multiple UFT boilers are common vented together. But you didn’t hear that from me.
Ironman
Re: What size couple old brass
it is ips, you have to thread it or use a dresser coupling or megapress
mattmia2
Re: New Boiler Overfilling After Warm Weather
That depends on how overfilled, and the setting of the pressuretrol.
Re: The "equalizer" is mis-named. It does nothing to equalize anything.
Some boilers may be able to steam without the equalizer, some may not.
I keep thinking about the Weil McLain video that has been kicking around for years the one with the boiler piped in glass pipe. It is probably on this site somewhere.
That video showed gob of water leaving the boiler and entering the header.
Many old boilers had a supply and return pipe and no header or equalizer and worked fine. Probably because they were oversized for the load or had a large steam disengaging space or both.
To me it's not worth the risk to not install an equalizer. The cost of going back to put one in is too high.
We have all seen boiler on this site piped like crap that worked.
The blurry line is when are you able to cheat a little on an install?
That is something there is no answer too.
Every job is different.
Re: HTP UFTC-140W Recurring Error Code 11 Issue
Given that feed back. I would get a second opinion on your state of tune. You are trusting the numbers from one device. Also know, that you or the next tech may be able to adjust the mixture to achieve consistent ignitions but have only compensated for a root problem. As a tech it’s hard to know the true state of things unless you have done the maintenance. Tuning for/ to a dirty condition isn’t great, though it can bring temporary function. 6 years is a good time to know that your heat exchanger (fire side) is clean and the burner is properly tuned with a trusted certified device. I have two analyzers so that when I have reason to question the one I’m using or just for a periodic test, I compare them.
Teemok