Smart water shut offs - Has anyone installed them? Do they work? Are they worth it? etc.

I have my doubts, though it would be nice. My question is… define "leak". It pretty well has to be something about flows, but what? Considering that one drip a minute — less than a gallon a day — in the wrong place (like behind plaster or drywall) can do an appalling amount of damage given time, is that a leak? Or is it a 1 1/2 inch main at 60 psi making like Niagara Falls? Or…?

I'll be watching this thread!

I went with a DIY product…..Econet Bulldog Valve Robot Provided you have a ball valve as your main shutoff. This sits on top of the ball value and can articulate the arm to close the valve. It does use sensors that you need to place in strategic locations. But, its a fairly fool proof setup and nothing needs to be learned to work properly.

https://www.econetshop.com/

Cheers, Flo

i met someone that had a system that used the analysis of sound, possibly ultrasonic to determine what was a leak. i'd imagine it is like GFCI or AFCI products, they will get increasingly better as real world experience increases.

Sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I suppose in some buildings it makes sense. Do a walk through and keep your eyes open for problems and you don't need it imho.

Pipes generally don't burst apart and flood. Even water heaters don't usually blow apart.

Just make you wonder if this is a reaction to pex, cpvc, shark bite etc etc etc. Did we need these with copper joints and soldered joints?

i know just and old fart talking.

Flologic...yes. no issues we are aware of over the last few years. High Quality product. $$$$..Mad Dog

I can easily see the benefit of a system which would sense and close on a catastrophic leak. I too have seen a house — not in the range that @Mark Eatherton mentioned! — totally destroyed by a leak; in that case a power outage led to freezing of a hot water heating system. That situation did have a leak alarm in the basement, which sounded off quite vigorously and, once the power came back on did notify the owner. Unhappily, in that situation, the individual who was supposed to be monitoring the house didn't.

Where I still have a question, though, is not on the catastrophic leak — that should be easy enough to implement — but is for the persistent small leak, which can also cause a lot of damage even in an occupied building.

So long as the "smart" water shutoff has two characteristics I'm for it. The two characteristics are a full shutoff on excess flow, with "excess flow" determined by the situation, and second it must be fully mechanical — not dependent on having electrical power.

I might add that such contraptions are VERY commonly used in hydraulics — I've seen them used on machines ranging from skid steers through big drills through trasnport aircraft. And they work. They're called hydraulic fuses.

I have yet to see a widget which would reliably shut off on a small leak.

I can see the apps driving proliferation of zone valves, how else will you be able to zero in on a micro leak?

My house had one shutoff for water before we renovated probably have 12 now between hot and cold lines. And We exercise annually.

Moen charges a monthly monitoring fee. Believe the two @JohnNY do not have monthly fees?

Smart valve + Fee may seem cheap if insurance company refused to renew without it

Unfortunately these devices require a robust home wifi network with a reliable internet connection as well as power.

Imagine you are away during an ice storm, and power to your house is cut. The furnace wont run and the network/wifi wont run. Disaster waiting to happen and these devices can’t help you because they have no power and no network connection.

Just be sure you understand the limitations of what they can and cant do before you purchase. Connecting the device to a small battery UPS might be a good idea!

nothing is 100% foolproof.

i wouldn't count the moen in the group of better quality

Thanks for asking, I have been wondering the same. With the craziness of home insurance these days, we are required to hold it (if you have a mortgage) but God forbid you actually need to use it, now you must jump through hoops. I try to prevent the need to file insurance claims as much as possible. As someone who saved $1000s of dollars preventing an undetected leak from the use of smart leak detectors, I am a firm believer in utilizing leak detector technologies. I have one placed around every area there is water leak potential. Two years back I got alerted of a leak at my attic expansion tank valve. (Yes my house is that old and still a gravity system). So every heating cycle, when the water expanded would have been a fast leak. I knew within seconds the first time it happened and was up there fixing it.

So I like the added security of actually being able to shut off the main water if something catastrophic occurs. So I have definitely been looking at the various options. *Also, I’m aware that technically my gravity heating system would not be covered as it’s a closed-loop system not attached to the main plumbing system. But I would want this for the main plumbing system anyways as that’s the whole sell for these systems anyways.

The insurance angle was mentioned. That could be a headache! We are insured for liability, but not property damage or loss (we did enquire, for laughs — the premium quoted was in the high FIVE figures per year). But to go back on topic — the various gadgets mentioned, and their usage, is very much geared to the more "normal" suburban or even urban type situation where usage is predictable and it is possible to easily determine the necessary parameters. And in that application, I can see it. Otherwise, only a device which would positively shut off on truly excess flow would be useful — and even that might not protect against a frozen pipe (particularly a heating system pipe) as the margin between a genuine leak and a large normal use (say two hose bibbs at once) just isn't big enough.

Interesting thread. I agree with Mark Eatherton's point that no leak is a good leak — finding and fixing it quickly is the real goal, and these devices are really just an early-warning layer. One thing worth considering is the insurance angle mentioned above; if insurers start requiring them, that could tip the value question for a lot of homeowners. Has anyone had their insurance actually offer a discount for having one installed?