No Header, No Equalizer, No Problem!

Your videos are awesome!

Wouldn't that S curve at some point completely fill out with water??

In general I think your findings are fine — although I'm much less concerned about water quality than I think you are.

As a friend of mine who does towing has said, there are many ways to get to 10. That applies to steam. In my view, while there are preferred ways to do things — particularly in near boiler piping — so long as the basic principles are there the thing will work. What are these? There has to be provision to allow any carryover splashing to get bacck to the boiler without getting into the steam mains. Lots of ways to do that. There hase to be ways for air to get out of the steam mains and radiators. Lots of ways to do that. There have to be ways for the condensate to get back to the boiler reasonably freely (I expect well over half the problems we see are here). And there has to be a small but controlled pressure difference to allow the steam and air to move.

That's it.

then you have ones where it looks more or less ok but still has a problem like that 2 pipe system someone posted a couple months ago where there must have been enough steam velocity to keep the condensate from following the pitch in a counterflow main.

First of all, let me say, I admire your tenacity creativity and exploring the arcane world of steam boilers. 💨

In my world the OEM requirements for configuration are gospel unless signed off by a the OEM FAI. I understand that low pressure residential steam boilers can operate under non-optimal configurations but I agree with @EBEBRATT-Ed and @109A_5 that excluding elements of the recommended OEM configuration exposes contractor to risk and liability.

Confusion reigns! (What else is new?). No, I don't think you are saying installation instructions should be ignored, @ethicalpaul . At least I don't read it that way. I think that what you are doing is exploring some fascinating corners of steam heat — which, as I have said before but without the hand-on fiddling yuo are doing, is incredibly forgiving.

I think it's clear enough that if you are installing a new boiler, you'd , be slightly nuts not to follow the manufacturer's recommendations — as an absolute minimum (you'd be amused at the overkill we did when installing Cedric).

Where it gets difficult is, as the folks above have said, is where you are dealing with an existing installation which is having problems. This becomes a judgement .call, and has to be based on a combination of experience and overall cost, as much as anything. Sometimes the best approach is to rip the whole thing out and start all over. Each situation will be a new challenge.

You fill the “10th Man“ role for the residential steam community, challenging assertions so we don’t fall into group think!

@EdTheHeaterMan 's comments up there on "dry" and "wet" steam are absolutely correct, and thank you for going down that rabbit hole. I've caused enough trouble with comments on naming returns that I didn't want to…

Saturated steam — which is all we ever work with in residential use — has some fascinating properties, but being an ideal gas or even close isn't one of them. This can cause all kinds of merriment when people try to treat it as such…

I have did not watch the video yet. But, of course, I trust your summary (you are ethical afterall). To summarize, there are two ways to keep water out of the steam piping and radiators. Clean water or proper piping. Achieving clean water, and maintaining clean water, can be a lot harder than it seems. As we all know, boilers often need multiple skimmings and/or flushings, to achieve properly clean water. And there's no guarantee that it will stay clean. There is stuff washing in through the returns. Many boilers, are fed on a somewhat regular basis. Whatever that means. The feed water can often be various degrees of contaminated. And most homeowners, are really clueless. Which is fine. Most people are clueless about industries that they are not involved in. Which is why we have varying industries and we don't just have everyone doing everything by themselves. It is not necessarily cost-effective, to hire professionals for multiple visits, to clean boilers. Just some food for thought. A one-time repipe, with a basic skimming and flushing, might be a more cost-effective and a more true blue method

Have you guys been sneaking into my basement? It sounds like you're describing my boiler! 45 year old Peerless that is way oversized. No header, no equalizer, no hartford loop.

I've contemplated re-piping it myself multiple times but I'm not sure if it is worth the effort. The system works pretty good and doesn't give me much trouble. Would I have dryer steam? Maybe. Would the system heat up quicker? Maybe. Would I save some fuel? Maybe. Would I damage the 45 year old boiler trying to take apart the old pipes? Maybe.

Two risers. Each one goes to its own main. No equalizer, no header. Single pipe counterflow. System works great!

A lot depends upon the velocity at the takeoffs, even with pristine water quality. What is the evaporation rate spec for your boiler in GPM and Net Steam Output in Btu/hr and what are the sizes of those 2 takeoffs? Dan recommends 15 fps or less as we know and says that boiler manufacturers stopped being able to achieve that at some point due to AFUE requirements which forced smaller boilers with smaller outlets. I would say that 15 fps guideline would have to be even stricter (maybe 10 fps to 12 fps?) in a counterflow situation like yours, and the recommended main pipe sizes are one size larger for counterflow vs. parallel flow and that is of course with an equalizer which you don't have. You do have drips though, which is a good thing!

@ethicalpaul That is an old picture but I've installed a vaporstat as the primary pressure control with the pressuretrol being the backup. 16oz cut-out and about 4oz cut in. It does cycle on pressure during long calls for heat due to being oversized but I'm fine with that.

I've reduced the cut-out down to 10oz and the system works just fine but it cycles a lot which annoys me.

If you want to pull water out it's easy. Close your supply and return valves and let pressure build then open the valves wide open.

That's where I got the idea.

To be fair I think it's a common situation in large commercial boilers. Might also happen with zone valves.

I agree. It's counter productive to bring up issues or critique an installation if the problem is elsewhere. You know, have someone repiping a boiler is expensive and if it's not the issue and is financially out of reach leave it.

I still want to know, "Who is puttin' puddin' in pipin' of steam boilers @Grallert. I hope it isn't @Peter Piper

I've seen pudding come out of returns, buttersckotch I think,

didn't mean to step on you @KC_Jones , only read the thread above after posting

Old Peerless G-461

It says Max Btu Input Per Hr: 120,000

Gross Output BTU/Hr: 97,000

Net 305 sq.ft. of steam

IBR: 72,800 BTU/Hr Steam.

I have about 210-ish Sq ft of EDR connected to the system.